RCZ 1.6 THP in a saxo?

[Slugshead]

There seems to be next to no information at all on this...

Anyone know if its been done yet or how kuch work wouod be involved?

A standard 200bhp engine in a saxo would be pretty immense..

[RustyM]

Well whats blocks it based on to start with? And then go from there.

[Slugshead]

No idea mate, looks a bit like the pug hdi engine but oter than that no idea

[wolf_gsxr]

the 200bhp engine is a mini cooper turbo engine. so probs be a pain in arse. 0-60 in the rcz is crap aswell 7.6 seconds. it cant weigh that much its a small car

[axsaxoman]

If you want one i have one sat in the workshop
bmw mini turbo engine complete with turbo ,all the fuel system etc
£1000
you will need to use a stand alone ,you wil not get std ecu to work as they are coded etc .--if you can i have the ecu = wiring loom as well + the citroen type engine mounting rail for drivers side --cancelled project .
the picasso type g/box fits on it
what other problems you will encounter i cannot say .
yes it is the next step

[Slugshead]

Ok so ive found some more info, the engine is from the prince family and its got the basic dimensions of thr psa tu engines

But the engine code from peugeot is EP6CDTX

That engine sits in the rcz and the 308 gti

[Slugshead]

Hmmm very tempting axsaxoman,

At this stage ive speculated about the idea and just looking for a lot more info on it.. Seeing how feasible of a job it could be..

[axsaxoman]

the turbo,s run on a direct injection system -so that high pressure petrol injection directly into the combustion chamber ,no reason of course why you could dump all the std complicated stuff and make an inlet maniflld and use a sinple stand alone ecu and cable tbody and then you can altwer anytbhing you like --,big difference is rpm is low compared to tu series --7k abslute max using std internals ,but as the std unit from the mini is 175 @5600 (I think 0 then no need tob rev it hard to make it go .
you will find very little if any bleivable info on these engines as nothibng as has been done ,as far as i could find other than very light tuning to stad units,say up to 250 bhp ,but that not on the tph unit (cit/pug0 but the mini type unit which does not have the third cam shaft as the THP unit does

[titchster]

the 200bhp engine is a mini cooper turbo engine. so probs be a pain in arse. 0-60 in the rcz is crap aswell 7.6 seconds. it cant weigh that much its a small car

Parkers say 1421kg. So, not light.

[blackie_2k5]

be cheaper to turbo a vts. Aswel as much earier. Those engine drink juice and thats before you fettle them! Theres a reason some things havent been done. If your looking for something dif and have money to burn then go for it... If not then dont waste your time

[rob69vts]

dont citroen use this engine in the ds3 racing aswell ?

[performanceparts2011]

the 200bhp engine is a mini cooper turbo engine. so probs be a pain in arse. 0-60 in the rcz is crap aswell 7.6 seconds. it cant weigh that much its a small car

they weigh lots mate ive driven enough and nearly crashed one in the snow but i will say they do have a good top end and are comfy cars to drive

[Slugshead]

Its all just a mid morning stuck in the office idea so tuoughti would try get some conversatiom about it..

The sax is a lot lighter than the rcz, its turbod as standard and the engines are part of the same family as the tu engines.. So why not have a 200bhp engine thats turbo and looks standard to the unknowing eye..

Thought it could be a very interesting conversion and would like to know how people would go about this..

Axsaxoman seems to have his head screwed in the right place forthis conversion which is very interesting..

As found out the engines are not exactly expensive and by the soumds of it they wont be too hard to fimd either...

Could spend £2000 on itbs amd the gubbings to go with it, or for roughly the same cost, attempt this coversion and then you got more room to modify a more powerful standard engine...

[Gandi699]

dont citroen use this engine in the ds3 racing aswell ?

Yes they do I believe. As good as it might be a guy I knew had one of the first turbo Cooper S minis brand new and it was a nightmare from the start, used to burn oil on start up. I know you can get a bad engine in any car but the service he had from BMW in dealing with it was atrocious

[Slugshead]

Lol, bmw are useless tbh, they put the head gasket on back to front on our old 540, needless to say, it didnt run and killed the engine more... Or was that down to it being taken to a bmw garage in france?

The engine from the rcz was built in collaboration between peuget, citroen and bmw and they state that its the engine to replace the TU series..

[blackie_2k5]

Its all just a mid morning stuck in the office idea so tuoughti would try get some conversatiom about it..

The sax is a lot lighter than the rcz, its turbod as standard and the engines are part of the same family as the tu engines.. So why not have a 200bhp engine thats turbo and looks standard to the unknowing eye..

Thought it could be a very interesting conversion and would like to know how people would go about this..

Axsaxoman seems to have his head screwed in the right place forthis conversion which is very interesting..

As found out the engines are not exactly expensive and by the soumds of it they wont be too hard to fimd either...

Could spend £2000 on itbs amd the gubbings to go with it, or for roughly the same cost, attempt this coversion and then you got more room to modify a more powerful standard engine...


it would cost alot of money by the time youve bought the engine, and converted the saxo shell to run it, plus the standalone to run it

and as john sais, the potential for modding is limited, you could find theyre very expensive to mod, or very poor with modding and blow up, you could get the same power mentioned(250bhp) from the VTS on decomp turbo set up before having to go forged

it would be a pretty cool engine to run, and fun, but for the costs and potential....all youll really gain is a VERY thirsty engine and some pub talk bragging rights

[hard_corejoeboy]

Buy a mini cooper s john cooper works gp.

/END

[moxy89]

dont listen to hardcorejoeboy, he sold his saxo and his b8's went with it...

[hard_corejoeboy]

Don't listen to anyone with a username that sounds like a bird

[rhydstar]

so no1 has done this yet, still think the 106 gti6 conversion is top so far , 167bhp with out a cam or breathing mods , turbo one of them ;) thats if u have space

[Ryan]

so no1 has done this yet, still think the 106 gti6 conversion is top so far , 167bhp with out a cam or breathing mods , turbo one of them ;) thats if u have space

Except that running the 6 speed box causes you other problems.

Might aswell just use the xsara and 5 speed box set up.

Other things to consider is the engine is quite tall and so the conversions I've seen have had the engine sitting at quite a high slant.

[blackie_2k5]

and its not the best of engines anyway... if going to all that trouble for a big engine you may aswell fi ta c20let

[hard_corejoeboy]

I personally wouldn't bother as like i said you could just get a mini cooper s which is a better ALL ROUND car than a saxo anyway.

[moxy89]

but your saxo was the best car in the world :homme:

[hard_corejoeboy]

Not as an ALL ROUNDER it wasn't. It was loud, hard and uncomfortable

[axsaxoman]

Idid not say that tuning was limited .Isaid i had not done it .so unlike a few posters on forums I will not guess + say if i do not for sure --IE i have done it myself.
If you were to buy a modern vnt turbo or any with simlar effective boost control to fit on your 10+year old saxo ,then fit forged pistons + rods +turbo water cooling+ heater exchanger for oil cooling.
I do not think you will do it cheaper + the std bhp is using a cat + egr system which all eat bhp --all we are really talking about is the ecu system ,
which you need one anyway .the block is alloy + alot stronger than the TU ,the bore spacing is better ,so less heat build up between the liners --los of advantages over the TU ,thats why they changed to this config.
+ its 1598cc--not 1587 cc in std form and the DS3 wrc rally cars are over 300bhp ,with a 34mm turbo inlet restrictor,and thats for lots of abuse -,not just a qucik run round the town.
If the old style xu engines were better they could have just used them in the ds3and sleeved them down to 1600cc..
No i believe the ep series of engines is the way forward after the TU --but tyhere are bound to be some parts that need changing if jgoing to the limit, but for 200+ reliable--pass an mot +economioical it has to worth considering

[Mini-valver]

You can run a JCW turbo and ex.manifold, map, IC and decat=250hp. 250hp with the standard turbo will last about 5 minutes. The engine is very economical, driveable and makes very good power but it will cost you a lot of money to do it right.

You'll HAVE to use the ECU, loom and keys from the donor car. If the donor is a MINI then you'll need the WHOLE car loom to make it run. Obviously you can trim it down but it needs ALL the CAN network for it to run. That means all control units and gateways. While this would be relatively simple as a bolt in thing once you have mounts, shafts etc sorted, its a lot of hassle and cost to do. They use direct injection so suffer from carbon build up on the back of the inlet valves but you can solve this with a couple of catch cans, the timing chain tensioners are terrible, as are the HP fuel pumps.

Its a very sophisticated modern engine, anything is do-able and it would make a mega conversion. You'd have 180hp out of the box and probably get about 50mpg in a Saxo but it'll be a headache to get right and youd never do it for 2k as suggested. Thats with the standard ECU! If you even attempted to run aftermarket management, youd be looking at a rediculously expensive ECU capable of running direct injection.

[axsaxoman]

I diaagree i have already looked into this and dta can suplay an ecu +direct injector driver ,so no need to use std ecu if you don,t want and I am guessing the figures you quote as remapping std ecu --which is probably why it frys itself very quickly as you will not be able to get to all the parameters and will be running far too lean (emission friendly) most of the time .
or you can dump the direct injection + pump etc.
make an inlet manifold+ cable t/body and run std type injection+ ecu --lots of ways to do it.
If you are into mini turb,s i have a complete unit with everything £1000 --18000miles
how can that be expensive

[Mini-valver]

yeah thats with the standard ECU. Theres a boost limiter within the ECU which prevents anymore than about 18psi (off the top of my head) and the engines fail mainly because of det + heat due to the amount of carbon build up creating hotspots.

So, a grand for the engine, then the ecu/loom and fitting, then the cost of a inlet manifold, blanking plugs for the injector holes in the head, engine mounts, exhaust, downpipe, intercooler, pipe work etc.

THEN, you have the issues of electro-thermostats which are ECU controlled. You could use a wax stat if you ran a aftermarket ECU and sorted all of the above but by this time you'll have spent a LOT of money! The easiest/cheapest way to do it would be to drop the whole MINI/PSA loom, ecu etc in as one and cut out what you can. When I built our R56 race car, I cut out as much of teh loom as I thought Id get away with and had a cunt of a job getting it to run right after, adding bits of loom back into the car until it was happy! MRS ecu needs to be there even if alol airbags aren't or the ECU cuts the fuel pump, Outside temp sensor has to be there etc etc.

It would make a mega project and Id invite anyone to try it but dont go into it thinking it'll be cheap.

[JoshB]

I dont know why everyone on the first page was saying it would drink fuel? My old mini used to return 40mpg.

The engines nice and light too so would suit the saxo better than the GTi6 conversion.