Engine mounts - changing and upgrading

[dolby20]

Hi people
Just a quick one
Considering changing my engine mounts and upgrading at the same time
What's changing them like?
And what are my options and people's recommendations?

I've looked at the Baker BM full road set (group N) I think
But really not sure what's good/bad/avoid?

Thanks

[Psycho18]

baker bm is the cheapest and are very good quality.
I personally think they are a very good mod.

Get the set for most improvement but expect alot more vibration from the engine/in the cabin.

Change only the lower engine mount and upper gearbox mount for good improvement and barely any increase in vibrations

So full set for hardcore or just those two if you want a comfortable daily drive.

[dolby20]

baker bm is the cheapest and are very good quality.
I personally think they are a very good mod.

Get the set for most improvement but expect alot more vibration from the engine/in the cabin.

Change only the lower engine mount and upper gearbox mount for good improvement and barely any increase in vibrations

So full set for hardcore or just those two if you want a comfortable daily drive.

Ok thanks for some great advice!
Whats fitment like...?

[KamRacing]

Only the lower engine mount is the tricky one as the simplest way is to press the bush into the mount. The top engine mount holes have to be enlarged slightly as the baker bm uses a larger and stronger bolt to cope with the vibration and hard use the car may receive.

Kev

[rorz_vts]

I had grp A psf mounts on mine and they were fine didn't really notice any vibration increases, defo one of the best mods money can buy tho they make a massive difference

[dolby20]

Only the lower engine mount is the tricky one as the simplest way is to press the bush into the mount. The top engine mount holes have to be enlarged slightly as the baker bm uses a larger and stronger bolt to cope with the vibration and hard use the car may receive.

Kev

So not just bolt off bolt on :/

[dolby20]

I had grp A psf mounts on mine and they were fine didn't really notice any vibration increases, defo one of the best mods money can buy tho they make a massive difference

Never heard of them but will look into them, thanks!

[rorz_vts]

KAm sells them iirc cost about £280 new tho

[blackie_2k5]

group A lower mount really is one of the better mods ive done to my car

[dolby20]

KAm sells them iirc cost about £280 new tho

Ouch! Steep!
Worth the money over the baker bm?

[dolby20]

group A lower mount really is one of the better mods ive done to my car

Group A or group N? :/ difference?

[blackie_2k5]

group A....solid lower mount, yeah theres a diff

and a group A lower can be picked up failry cheap, that 280 will be for a full set of mounts

[dolby20]

Group A more 'aggressive' than Group N?
Not really getting the difference....

[Tom5190]

Group A are solid, goup N arnt.

We sell a few different kits have a look on the shop...

[dolby20]

Group A are solid, goup N arnt.

We sell a few different kits have a look on the shop...

I'll probably stick to group N then, who have I got to choose from?

[Tom5190]

Off the top of my head i dont no them all but there is a few listed on our shop

[J222JRA]

Vibra Technics is also worth considering.

[blackie_2k5]

vibra technics ecu and gearbox, group A lower :y:

[dolby20]

vibra technics ecu and gearbox, group A lower :y:

Extreme?
Or manageable?
Group N sounds more like what I'm looking for....
But now Baker BM vs. Vibratechnics???

[Tannerman]

What's the benefit of having uprated mounts?never really understood it.

[Psycho18]

Stick to the baker bm if you don't want it to be too harash. A full set of group N will shake the cabin. I've been in AlexB's 106 gti with Group A's and although his car was solid it was just too much vibration.

As i've said go for the baker bm full set or just gearbox and lower mount. I think you'll be happy with that for a road car.

[Psycho18]

What's the benefit of having uprated mounts?never really understood it.

Stop engine/transmission movement. Potentially putting more torque through to the wheels. You will notice a big difference with uprated engine mounts. First mod i would do to any car is uprate engine mounts.

[jimjam]

Baker bm's on mine too. They do vibrate, but its fine once moving. Pulling away in first gear is the worst bit, but worth the benefits. Make sure you atleast change the gearbox mount when changing the lower bush. I went through alot of downpipe bolts using only a lower bush. Best off changing all or nothing from my experience.

[dolby20]

Stick to the baker bm if you don't want it to be too harash. A full set of group N will shake the cabin. I've been in AlexB's 106 gti with Group A's and although his car was solid it was just too much vibration.

As i've said go for the baker bm full set or just gearbox and lower mount. I think you'll be happy with that for a road car.
Cheers for this, think I'll go for a full set of baker bm's

[Tannerman]

Think I will invest in some of these aswell....after she's been charged anyway as thats were all my cash is going at the mo.lol.might just ask fer em for me bday :-)

[KamRacing]

End of the day you have a road car. You dont need group A mounts. Some element of comfort is still required. The Baker BM Saxo mounts (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/engine-mountings/citroen-saxo-vtr-vts-baker-bm-group-n-engine-mount-kit.html) are great value for money and the quality is as good as you can get.

[dolby20]

End of the day you have a road car. You dont need group A mounts. Some element of comfort is still required. The Baker BM Saxo mounts (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/engine-mountings/citroen-saxo-vtr-vts-baker-bm-group-n-engine-mount-kit.html) are great value for money and the quality is as good as you can get.


Thanks
Just the answer I was looking for :D

[dolby20]

Just quickly, worth buying the buffer?

[rorz_vts]

If you buy the set doesn't it come with the buffer? If it doesn't then yes

[dolby20]

If you buy the set doesn't it come with the buffer? If it doesn't then yes

Optional extra, so why is it optional?

[KamRacing]

the buffer makes it even stiffer. not 100% needed depending on how/where you drive your car

[dolby20]

Don't think I'll be needing that!
Drilling out the ecu engine mount, does sound like a simple job :/ or am I over complicating it by thinking it needs threading too?

[jimjam]

No thread. Just a straight through hole. It's an m12 screw i think replacing an m8 in the top. It does make the standard mount bolt look screw look very thin in comparison. Its easy to do. Pretty sure the bracket is cast alloy if i remember correctly?! Remove 3 screw and the mount with a jack under the car yo support the engine. Theirs a guide on the forum i think.

[blackie_2k5]

not to ruin a sale kam...but tbf the group A lower is one of the best mods ive done to my car, and is a must for a road OR track set up

its not harsh at all, little tiny bit extra vibration but nothing compared to all the scaremongery you read on here and similar

the torque transfer is mint, when i fitted that to my healthy vtr lump alone ppl wouldnt believe it was jst a vtr lump after being in it, you really feel the lot tighten up and the power actually get to the wheels

engine throw is near abolished

virbatechnics and a group A for me


EDIT-actually i done the group A with stock others, and it done the same, could barely tell it was on and after a week i never noticed it, pm citroensport on here, i was going to sell him mine but he wanted a ride out after reading all the "shit" about them on here....he could hardly tell it was ther either..

[rorz_vts]

Ill echo andy here with what he's saying about the bottom mount, when i had mine fitted i hardly noticed any vibration but did notice that all engine play was gone, i also didnt notice much with the gearbox mount it was only when i put the top mount on with the alloy blocks and solid buffers that i noticed a difference and even that i didnt find awful, then i didnt have anything in the car really bar buckets, harness's and a cage.

[Tannerman]

Ill echo andy here with what he's saying about the bottom mount, when i had mine fitted i hardly noticed any vibration but did notice that all engine play was gone, i also didnt notice much with the gearbox mount it was only when i put the top mount on with the alloy blocks and solid buffers that i noticed a difference and even that i didnt find awful, then i didnt have anything in the car really bar buckets, harness's and a cage.

Was that group A or N?

[dolby20]

No thread. Just a straight through hole. It's an m12 screw i think replacing an m8 in the top. It does make the standard mount bolt look screw look very thin in comparison. Its easy to do. Pretty sure the bracket is cast alloy if i remember correctly?! Remove 3 screw and the mount with a jack under the car yo support the engine. Theirs a guide on the forum i think.

Will have to find that guide!

[dolby20]

Ill echo andy here with what he's saying about the bottom mount, when i had mine fitted i hardly noticed any vibration but did notice that all engine play was gone, i also didnt notice much with the gearbox mount it was only when i put the top mount on with the alloy blocks and solid buffers that i noticed a difference and even that i didnt find awful, then i didnt have anything in the car really bar buckets, harness's and a cage.

Sounds good for a full change to group n for road car?

[KamRacing]

not to ruin a sale kam...but tbf the group A lower is one of the best mods ive done to my car, and is a must for a road OR track set up

its not harsh at all, little tiny bit extra vibration but nothing compared to all the scaremongery you read on here and similar

the torque transfer is mint, when i fitted that to my healthy vtr lump alone ppl wouldnt believe it was jst a vtr lump after being in it, you really feel the lot tighten up and the power actually get to the wheels

engine throw is near abolished

virbatechnics and a group A for me


EDIT-actually i done the group A with stock others, and it done the same, could barely tell it was on and after a week i never noticed it, pm citroensport on here, i was going to sell him mine but he wanted a ride out after reading all the "shit" about them on here....he could hardly tell it was ther either..

A £20 sale is hardly going to make or break me :D Personally I prefer a hard rubber mount for daily use. Its still a massive difference over standard and with the way I drive corners I like the lot to be done rather than just the lower mount. Theres two bushes low down anyway which is why just changing one solid mount is not too extreme. A full Peugeot sport group A kit is overkill for 99% of people here IMO

End of the day one mans meat is another mans poison....

[blackie_2k5]

yeah i suppose, i just think ppl shrug off the group A soild because they read too much online from ppl whove never even used one, having had one in 2 cars its just what id rahter have, its SOO much better then standard and isnt harsh imo

[Psycho18]

yeah i suppose, i just think ppl shrug off the group A soild because they read too much online from ppl whove never even used one, having had one in 2 cars its just what id rahter have, its SOO much better then standard and isnt harsh imo

Yeah but that was just the lower mount wasn't it?

So the conclusion is just a Group A lower mount or Group N all round.

[e8_pqck]

i have a polybush on gearbox, never thought there was any difference at all.

Only reason i got it was because it was purple and had thirty quid to spend. felt better after the rush of buying it and being able to say i've got one. other than that, no difference really.

[blackie_2k5]

in conclusion if not running massive power or really needing them...just an A lower, if wanting all then an A lower and N upper and gearbox for me :)

[dolby20]

Sorted
Now whose to choose!?

[KamRacing]

Yeah but that was just the lower mount wasn't it?

So the conclusion is just a Group A lower mount or Group N all round.

lower mount will only limit front to rear movement around the driveshafts. There will still be other stresses and movements on the engine and gearbox

[Osian23]

Stop engine/transmission movement. Potentially putting more torque through to the wheels. You will notice a big difference with uprated engine mounts. First mod i would do to any car is uprate engine mounts.

worth doing on my 1.1? cant afford to insure a 1.4 or vtr/s so why not make the most of a 1.1

[logic_guy]

worth doing on my 1.1? cant afford to insure a 1.4 or vtr/s so why not make the most of a 1.1

In all fairness, no.

I don't mean to be rude but a 1.1 isn't the worlds quickest car.

I have a lower one. ON a cold start up, the car vibrates like mad.

It seems to feel alot better when you accelerate. You're taking the 'twist' out of the engine.

[Psycho18]

lower mount will only limit front to rear movement around the driveshafts. There will still be other stresses and movements on the engine and gearbox

But shouldn't make much of a difference though with the odd blast around city streets.

Like Blackie said unless running massive power or actually really needing them i.e around the track. Stick to a Lower A only.

This is just what i'm gathering from the conversation. I'm no expert.

[Barry123]

worth doing on my 1.1? cant afford to insure a 1.4 or vtr/s so why not make the most of a 1.1

Yes it is. Changing the lower engine mount, removes a lot of the 'slack/sloppy' feel in the gear shift. It become much more positive as a result.

Best £30 you can spend on the car.

[dolby20]

wow....
so either lower mount in group a
or
all round mounts in group n

that sound right?

[Barry123]

All mounts group N. Group A is just insane for a general every day fast road car.

[Brettles1986]

Fucking hell, a definitive solution already!

I will go with the advice of the person with the highest post count except moke as hes a spamming lil fucker "insert wink emoticon here"

[Psycho18]

wow....
so either lower mount in group a
or
all round mounts in group n

that sound right?

Stick with this bud. Either way there will be increased vibrations so don't expect it to be the same as what you've got now.

[dolby20]

i've decided
its gonna be all round group n

[devilsadvocate]

Interesting.....may need to invest in one of these

Anywhere you can buy them new?

[Barry123]

The biggest difference is with the lower mount, and that's about £30 from powerflex.

[dolby20]

So now ive decided on group N
whose to choose....
baker bm?
powerflex?
other?

[Psycho18]

Baker BM as far as i know are the cheapest group N kit and works perfectly.

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/engine-mountings/citroen-saxo-vtr-vts-baker-bm-group-n-engine-mount-kit.html

[dolby20]

1 vote for baker bm
any others?

[logic_guy]

Dolby. Are you going to be using your car on the track allot or mainly too and from work? From experience, the lower mount makes the car vibrate like mad on a cold start up. So with another 2 stiff ones would rattle your car apart I think.

[Liam_]

Dolby. Are you going to be using your car on the track allot or mainly too and from work? From experience, the lower mount makes the car vibrate like mad on a cold start up. So with another 2 stiff ones would rattle your car apart I think.

If you fit a Group N upper gearbox mount to compliment the lower, you'll find the vibrations aren't half as noticeable. ;)

My advice would be to do both at the same time. My upper gearbox mount was from a lad called Miles - think he has/ had a shop on eBay called Pug Racing.

[dolby20]

The car isn't going to be tracked so fast road use
I thought group N all round wasn't as extreme as group A?

[Psycho18]

So many different views...

From my experience as a fast road car i have used group n lower mount and group n gearbox mount and there were barely any vibrations. Once i added the group N ecu mount it vibrated quite a lot and i had to get used to it.

So from my experience add the lower mount and gearbox mount and see how you get on. You can add the ecu mount at a later time as it is the most expensive.

[dolby20]

sod it
group N all round

who should i use?

[KamRacing]

Baker BM. Supports a small business and the quality is top notch. he produces parts for a number of other suppliers and are cheap. You dont need official branded Peugeot sport stuff as it comes with a pricetag

[dolby20]

Baker BM. They produce parts for a number of other suppliers and are cheap. You dont need official branded Peugeot sport stuff as it comes with a pricetag

thanks
tbh throughout this these have been my choice, nothing really swayed it, expect an order in the near future

[stamfordsaxo]

all gobble dee gook to me

[dolby20]

all gobble dee gook to me

Great input
1 post closer to those for sale threads....

[AlexB]

Stick to the baker bm if you don't want it to be too harash. A full set of group N will shake the cabin. I've been in AlexB's 106 gti with Group A's and although his car was solid it was just too much vibration.

As i've said go for the baker bm full set or just gearbox and lower mount. I think you'll be happy with that for a road car.

Dont be a fanny i used that car daiy with those mounts for over a year :homme:

Only vibration that annoyed me was after a while the sunroof winder rattling so i took it out

[dolby20]

probably just stick to group N's

[AlexB]

Anything is better than standard the pug sport parts are well worth the cash imo (thats what i have) group A

People bang on about the vibrations and its nothing at all to worry about literally only thing i noticed was the winder rattling

[AlexB]

Double post

[dolby20]

Anything is better than standard the pug sport parts are well worth the cash imo (thats what i have) group A

People bang on about the vibrations and its nothing at all to worry about literally only thing i noticed was the winder rattling

why pay more for those over group n's?

[AlexB]

why pay more for those over group n's?

Cause there better

The engine moves less with them so you get much better results plus they arent much more tbh

[dolby20]

Cause there better

The engine moves less with them so you get much better results plus they arent much more tbh

ok, shall have a browseeeeeee

[blackie_2k5]

group A...anyone whos sais vibration is a puff, as alex sais, its fine on a daily!

2 cars...2 years, no problems, the only thing bothering me abotu mine now is the boot rallting, but thats the suspension not the mounts ;)

[jimjam]

Baker bm. As kam said, he'd appreciate the support. the quality is great and he was a nicre chap on the phone!

[dolby20]

Nice one people!

[Tannerman]

If you fit a Group N upper gearbox mount to compliment the lower, you'll find the vibrations aren't half as noticeable. ;)

My advice would be to do both at the same time. My upper gearbox mount was from a lad called Miles - think he has/ had a shop on eBay called Pug Racing.

Pug racing is near me the guys sound met him at pugfest last year.I'll be getting some all round group n's off of him.takes time to give you advice which is always nice aswell

[dolby20]

Thanks guys
Should be sorting soon

[DanGT]

Will just add I have just bought a full set of baker bm mounts, and the quality is excellent. He is great to chat to on the phone, very nice guy, and he even got them out to me next day! I believe he is doing a deal on the extra buffers as well in the new year so bear that in mind. Best thing to do is phone him when you come to buy.

HTH
Dan

[saxovtrjar]

i personally would get mine from miles in fordingbridge hampshire

[saxovtrjar]

ebay user name mlshore

[saxovtrjar]

mlshor not mlshore sorry guys

[dolby20]

Mot must come first!

[vtr_chris90]

from my experience i would say the vibratechnics all around are the way forward, although ive never driven with the bakerbm so i cant comment on them, but the combintations ive tried are...

pugsport group n all round
vibratechnics upper 2 with pugsport group n lower
vibratechnics upper 2 with pugsport group a lower
and then vibratechnics all round

this was all within the space of about 2 months with all types of driving

and what i found was the vibratechnics all round were probably in the middle of the pugsport group n all round and pugsport group a all round for stiffness, but had a shit load less vibration, the vibratechnics all round did feel better than the pugsport group n imo

when i tried the pugsport group n with vibratechnics uppers, it was very quite barely any vibration, but it didnt quite feel right, then swapped group n lower for the vibratechnics lower and the improvment was massive, although not massivly increasing the vibrations, then obv with the group a lower and still vibratechnic uppers it improved more but added more vibration, but the group a lower really is not needed on a daily/car thats never going to see a track

ive been to the vibratechnics workshop and they explained how they make the mounts and why they do them like they do, i also tested a couple of the pugsport mounts whilst i was there, and the pugsport group n lower was a lot softer than the vibratechnics lower mount. we also tested the uppers

now i dont know the costs these days as i havnt looked for a while, but last time i looked the vibratechnics were a fair bit cheaper than pugsports (unless you could find some second hand) so i would go for them as theyre just as stiff if not stiffer than the group n set up and have half the vibrations

again cant comment on the bakerbm as i havnt seen theyre price either

but the bakerbm group a rear fork bush really is not needed, i found that just added a fuck load of vibration, it just never stopped, and vibrated even more inbetween gear changes and with clutch dipped lol but yet it barely made much difference tbh. i would only say you really need this if your on track

also the buffers that go either side on the ecu mount, they are not needed with the vibratechnics mounts due to their design, the pugsport set up come with theyre own, which you have to also weld 2 metal plates onto the chassis this can be a pain if you cant weld yourself and have to pay someone
but the bakerbm buffers are based on standard ones so dont need any plates welding, theyre just stiffer rubber

hope that helps

[dolby20]

^ this is the kind of advice!
That's an essay!!

Thanks, will sort these after MOT

[KamRacing]

You wont notice any difference comparing the BakerBM bushes to the Vibratechnics ones

[dolby20]

You wont notice any difference comparing the BakerBM bushes to the Vibratechnics ones

Even price!?
*note I haven't actually looked yet*

[dolby20]

Got a full baker BM group N set - now.... fitment!?