Alex Salmond

[Gabbastard]

Im not really into discussing politics, and its frowned upon in GC so...

Alex Salmond= Fud.

Discuss.

[Barry123]

FUD?

Are the Scottish really that keen for independence...?

EDIT: Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt?

[DundeeUnited]

how is he? he wants an independent scotland, which i think would make this country even more of a failure than it already is, as patriotic as id like to be, scotland would be minute in every sense if it was independent. i dont like david cameron either though, he is puppet who tries to cover himself up with clever old hypocrisy.

[Gabbastard]

Fud, a fanny. In this case a short-sighted, rhetoric-filled, "ill be there if theres a free pie in it for me" fanny.

Im not sure if the Scottish are keen for it, the problem is that so many people are so stupid/uninformed/easily led, theyll buy into the 2014 propaganda that will no doubt revolve around Bannockburn and our "whisky and oil industries". Quite frankly, it frightens the fuck out of me.

[Sophia_Bush]

genuine question to you Scottish members do you want it or do you not?

[Gabbastard]

how is he? .

You answered your own question IMO.

[DundeeUnited]

genuine question to you Scottish members do you want it or do you not?

no /thread

[Barry123]

To me as an unpatriotic 'english' person (I guess - although I'd always class myself as British), if Scotland wants to go their own way then groovy. But economically I can't see how it will be viable, unless there are sssssserious cuts on the various subsidies. I don't know the figures but I'd be amazed if the financial hub of Edinburgh and the North Sea Oil could support an independent Scotland - It really could realistically wind up like Greece. I'm of the impression that the UK can't live without Scotland and Scotland can't live without UK, breaking away just repairs the battered egos of those who feel they are run by the English/UK at the cost of royally screwing the entire country... all just for pride.

Fair play to Salmond though, he comes across as knowing his stuff and on the ball with rebukes - I'm just not sure if he's too proud to realise he'd be screwing up his country

[Gabbastard]

You really think Scotland would get to keep the oil? No chance.

Independence would mean renegotiation of everything including waters. And say we do get to keep the north east. Who's going to stop any other country fishing in it, or russian oil rigs coming in to setup? We'd have no armed forces. Maybe we could stand on the shore and throw stones at them.

He seems to be ignoring the fact the money being spent on things like the free dental care, free prescriptions, free eyetests needs to be recouped somehow, and damned sure it isnt all coming from Scottish taxes.

[DundeeUnited]

I'm just not sure if he's too proud to realise he'd be screwing up his country

this is exactly why i wouldnt want it, it would be complete anticlimax in every sense, it would start off great, then there would be a huge demise in the people, oil, economy and reputation. If i thought it would be sustainable then fine, but what are we trying to prove, and what will we gain from being independence, i mean seriously, pride? when it comes to countries everyone will class themselves with their own, if your welsh you wont say im from the united kingdom, because thats what it is, a kingdom, and it will only remain a kingdom if all countries unite and act as one, and if i was wales, england, or northern ireland, id be pretty pissed at scotland for trying to breach it.

[Zander123]

Im Scottish and think its a bad idea . And Salmon is a tosser who would go to the openning of a paper bag if he would get a free meal out off it

[Barry123]

You really think Scotland would get to keep the oil? No chance.

Independence would mean renegotiation of everything including waters. And say we do get to keep the north east. Who's going to stop any other country fishing in it, or russian oil rigs coming in to setup? We'd have no armed forces. Maybe we could stand on the shore and throw stones at them.

He seems to be ignoring the fact the money being spent on things like the free dental care, free prescriptions, free eyetests needs to be recouped somehow, and damned sure it isnt all coming from Scottish taxes.

this is exactly why i wouldnt want it, it would be complete anticlimax in every sense, it would start off great, then there would be a huge demise in the people, oil, economy and reputation. If i thought it would be sustainable then fine, but what are we trying to prove, and what will we gain from being independence, i mean seriously, pride? when it comes to countries everyone will class themselves with their own, if your welsh you wont say im from the united kingdom, because thats what it is, a kingdom, and it will only remain a kingdom if all countries unite and act as one, and if i was wales, england, or northern ireland, id be pretty pissed at scotland for trying to breach it.

Is this a common view amongst the Scottish???
Based on the media I thought it was pretty much 90% wanted out of the UK.

[Gabbastard]

like I say, so many will get caught up in the patriotism and idea of independence but so few actually realise the implications - economically and otherwise - that independence presents.

Everyone I know wishes the pressing for independence would fuck off.

[DundeeUnited]

Is this a common view amongst the Scottish???
Based on the media I thought it was pretty much 90% wanted out of the UK.

lol fuck that, maybe all of the SNP do, but not me, Salmond is trying to make a global statement, but it will inevitably fail, the current financial climate will wreck an independent scotland, its written in black at white, look at ireland, greece. then what are we gonna do when this happens, beg to get back in the uk, its a dream and thats all it is

[stupotvtr]

Independence would be great if it worked as well as salmond is selling it but it won't so probs best to stay part of the uk.

[martinmac]

I want independence. Not here to argue with any Unionists either.

Another thing i fail to understand is, to the people who are sooo anti-Salmond or anti-SNP,

Which party would you rather led this country?

[DundeeUnited]

I want independence. Not here to argue with any Unionists either.

Another thing i fail to understand is, to the people who are sooo anti-Salmond or anti-SNP,

Which party would you rather led this country?

i have nothing against salmond, its about time we had someone with common sense, but thats the thing, i dont want to be led as a country, ad rather be led by a nationwide government, back up why you think it would be good to be independent, not being a dick just want to know? :y:

[stupotvtr]

I think Alex salmond as a person is quite a funny guy when you hear things he says in parliament. Lots of witty banter maybe no exactly what you want for a first minister though lol.

[vtr02]

IMHO i believe if scotland want to leave britain then so be it, Sure it may have an affect on the english economy but if scotland believe that they can do there own fiscal/armed sources/passport then they are crazy, SNP know this hence why they want a third option in the ref such as yes no more powers moved over.

I'm english don't class myself as british to be honest just my views though

[martinmac]

i have nothing against salmond, its about time we had someone with common sense, but thats the thing, i dont want to be led as a country, ad rather be led by a nationwide government, back up why you think it would be good to be independent, not being a dick just want to know? :y:

I want independence on the basis that i would like Scotland to be recognised as a nation in its own right. Its just something i would like to witness in my lifetime tbh. I cba getting into any depth, just thought i'd voice my opinion.

I agree with the uncertainties and possible economic problems that may arise, however with proper leadership i am sure Scotland could manage just fine.

Also i'm sure Cameron and his lapdog are sh*tting themselves at the prospect of losing us and that makes me happy :p

[DundeeUnited]

I want independence on the basis that i would like Scotland to be recognised as a nation in its own right. Its just something i would like to witness in my lifetime tbh. I cba getting into any depth, just thought i'd voice my opinion.

I agree with the uncertainties and possible economic problems that may arise, however with proper leadership i am sure Scotland could manage just fine.

Also i'm sure Cameron and his lapdog are sh*tting themselves at the prospect of losing us and that makes me happy :p

but you want to see scotland make themselves recognised, fair do's, but surely it will have the opposite affect should something go wrong, the country will be bankrupt, we will be a laughing stock, and we will be begging to get back into a kingdom that we tried so hard to get out of.

[martinmac]

but you want to see scotland make themselves recognised, fair do's, but surely it will have the opposite affect should something go wrong, the country will be bankrupt, we will be a laughing stock, and we will be begging to get back into a kingdom that we tried so hard to get out of.

Surely independence wouldn't be on the agenda if we were really going to end up in that much of a mess though?


I'd settle for the option of more devolved powers if independence doesn't happen

[DundeeUnited]

Surely independence wouldn't be on the agenda if we were really going to end up in that much of a mess though?


I'd settle for the option of more devolved powers if independence doesn't happen

agreed, id like scotland to have a much bigger say in what happens in day to day life, but wouldnt want complete independence.

in terms of on the agenda, salmond is trying to make a statement like you say, but do you not think other countries like greece etc had the same thought pattern.

[martinmac]

agreed, id like scotland to have a much bigger say in what happens in day to day life, but wouldnt want complete independence.

in terms of on the agenda, salmond is trying to make a statement like you say, but do you not think other countries like greece etc had the same thought pattern.

So is it the potential financial problems that put certain folk off?

Is it the timing of this proposition then? Would Scotland survive independence when the world isn't in a recession?

I'm not an expert, but considering we have a smaller population than London, surely we have enough materials, oil, wind farms etc. to provide such a small country with enough to get by on?

[Gabbastard]

We wouldnt keep our oil, our exports are crippled,we'd have no armed forces, unemployment is pretty massive just now, and we spend way more on services than we bring in in taxes. yeah we'd get by, in the same way that romania gets by.

What is it motivates you to say youd like to see independence? Not being argumentative, just wondering.

[DundeeUnited]

So is it the potential financial problems that put certain folk off?

Is it the timing of this proposition then? Would Scotland survive independence when the world isn't in a recession?

I'm not an expert, but considering we have a smaller population than London, surely we have enough materials, oil, wind farms etc. to provide such a small country with enough to get by on?

yes we would survive with all the oil etc, if only the world worked like that, its scotland biggest exports which i where we make the money from, but scotland doesnt get the money directly it goes to the government, which in turn will benefit us in the long term. other countries would then benefit from our exports if we became independent, yet if we trust these exports so much we could become reliant on them and if something or someone were to pull the plug, we would be done.

scotland would probably survive if the world wasnt in recession, but what if another recession hit after that, then what?

[martinmac]

We wouldnt keep our oil, our exports are crippled,we'd have no armed forces, unemployment is pretty massive just now, and we spend way more on services than we bring in in taxes. yeah we'd get by, in the same way that romania gets by.

What is it motivates you to say youd like to see independence? Not being argumentative, just wondering.

Is this all fact?

The thing is, it seems to me that it's all "what if's...", you never know, maybe things could work out for the better.

As i said before, is it really that possible that a nationalist party would propose independence knowing there is a chance we will end up like Romania?

I don't think so. But maybe i am naive.

And as for my motivations for independence, i wouldn't consider myself an active nationalist, so to put it bluntly they are probably based mainly on 'dreams and hopes'.

But as i said i would settle for the option of more devolved powers, as i'd like my country to be in control of its own matters.

[DundeeUnited]

Is this all fact?

The thing is, it seems to me that it's all "what if's...", you never know, maybe things could work out for the better.

As i said before, is it really that possible that a nationalist party would propose independence knowing there is a chance we will end up like Romania?

I don't think so. But maybe i am naive.

And as for my motivations for independence, i wouldn't consider myself an active nationalist, so to put it bluntly they are probably based mainly on 'dreams and hopes'.

But as i said i would settle for the option of more devolved powers, as i'd like my country to be in control of its own matters.

with all due respect mate you probably are naive, but so am i.

gabbas right, we would end up like an ELDC, our unemployment is at an all time low, were in social and financial ruin, people would immigrate south of the border for more jobs, taxes would be unfathomable, and so would food, drink, and all other goods, everything we get now is bought on from the global market, and its bought by the uk as a whole, so certain branches such as tesco, asda, etc. the thing with buying imports is there has to be a respectable income from either export or profit. we done have that much resources to export to be able to sustain ourselves. honestly, the greeks arent stupid and i dont think they would've joined europe had the thought the recession would have happened.

[stupotvtr]

We wouldnt keep our oil, our exports are crippled,we'd have no armed forces, unemployment is pretty massive just now, and we spend way more on services than we bring in in taxes. yeah we'd get by, in the same way that romania gets by.

What is it motivates you to say youd like to see independence? Not being argumentative, just wondering.

Is it true we wouldn't own the oil? It's in our sea so I'd expect we can keep it. We have got army there's a barracks 100 yards from my house, and if we really got into trouble that way I'm sure the rest of the uk would help out like we help the American army etc.

I would need to do a lot more reading on the subject before I vote that's for sure.

[DundeeUnited]

Is it true we wouldn't own the oil? It's in our sea so I'd expect we can keep it. We have got army there's a barracks 100 yards from my house, and if we really got into trouble that way I'm sure the rest of the uk would help out like we help the American army etc.

I would need to do a lot more reading on the subject before I vote that's for sure.

lol, its not our sea, its the north sea. also all the barracks, airbases are all british and under the influence of the queen, Royal air force, royal navy, etc. surely if we were independent we would have to create our own armed forces.

[martinmac]

with all due respect mate you probably are naive, but so am i.

gabbas right, we would end up like an ELDC, our unemployment is at an all time low, were in social and financial ruin, people would immigrate south of the border for more jobs, taxes would be unfathomable, and so would food, drink, and all other goods, everything we get now is bought on from the global market, and its bought by the uk as a whole, so certain branches such as tesco, asda, etc. the thing with buying imports is there has to be a respectable income from either export or profit. we done have that much resources to export to be able to sustain ourselves. honestly, the greeks arent stupid and i dont think they would've joined europe had the thought the recession would have happened.

As i said i'm no expert, i skimmed Scottish politics in 1st year at Uni and then went on to study Criminal Justice, so polictics really isn't my 'thing'.

I understand all the uncertainties, you could even say it's probably the uncertainties that makes the prospect of independence even more interesting.

Anyway, what will be, will be.

As i said, i really do find it hard to believe our nationalist government would want to leave our nation in a crippled state.

The next few years will be interesting.

Anyway enough debating, don't want the Scottish members falling out over silly political issues :hug:

[Sophia_Bush]

army navy airforce come to mind you'd need, health education been mentioned

[Gabbastard]

lol, its not our sea, its the north sea. also all the barracks, airbases are all british and under the influence of the queen, Royal air force, royal navy, etc. surely if we were independent we would have to create our own armed forces.

bingo.

British waters, not Scottish. No way would Westminster give up north sea oil/gas under negotiation. We'd probably get to keep a small (possibly per capita) percentage of the oil. Not enough to make us viable as a nation.

[Gabbastard]

Anyway enough debating, don't want the Scottish members falling out over silly political issues :hug:

Thats the good thing, no ones spat the dummy. If it was English people debating however... :P

[martinmac]

army navy airforce come to mind you'd need, health education been mentioned

Not sure if i understood this right, but Scotland has it's own health and education systems already :y:

[martinmac]

Thats the good thing, no ones spat the dummy. If it was English people debating however... :P

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk46/martinho2k8/0_funny_oh_no_you_didnt.gif

[stupotvtr]

Kl I get what you mean about the sea and oil etc. But with the army thing I'm sure the soldiers that signed up did so to protect their own country so if their from scotland surely they would want to protect Scotland?

Suppose it's just the tip of the Iceberg we're discussing so many things would need redone ie laws, business contract etc.

[martinmac]

Kl I get what you mean about the sea and oil etc. But with the army thing I'm sure the soldiers that signed up did so to protect their own country so if their from scotland surely they would want to protect Scotland?

Suppose it's just the tip of the Iceberg we're discussing so many things would need redone ie laws, business contract etc.

Its mad when you think about it, even the Union Jack would have to be changed? All the little British things you would normally take for granted would have to be adapted to exclude Scotland.

[GrantW]

Kl I get what you mean about the sea and oil etc. But with the army thing I'm sure the soldiers that signed up did so to protect their own country so if their from scotland surely they would want to protect Scotland?

Suppose it's just the tip of the Iceberg we're discussing so many things would need redone ie laws, business contract etc.

Yeah the soldiers might be Scottish and based in Scotland but they are part of the British Army! So we would have plenty of soldiers dropping out of the British Army, but we would need to create our own Scottish Army and then buy our own planes/weapons/tanks/ships etc.

Also seen elsewhere that Faslane is the biggest employer in the west of scotland, if Scotland was independent then the British Nuke deterrent would be moved to a British country, so shitloads of people would lose jobs there.

I think the 3rd option will win ultimately, no we don't want independence but we do want a bit more say in things.

As an aside, Cameron would love it if Scotland went it alone, instantly gets rid of something like 40 odd Labour seats and 18 Lib Dem seats, for the cost of a single Conservative seat.

[hellonpluto]

salmond is a complete and utter knob jockey and will destroy scotland within 5 years guaranteed.

[Gabbastard]

something ive yet to see clarification on when ive seen mps talking about it; what "more control and greater powers" are they talking about when talking about the 3rd option in the referendum?

[martinmac]

something ive yet to see clarification on when ive seen mps talking about it; what "more control and greater powers" are they talking about when talking about the 3rd option in the referendum?

Not sure tbh mate, the other option is called "devo max", which suggests maximum devolved powers, but I don't think there is clarification yet as to what "maximum" is?

I found this on a website though to clear up some issues, I.e. what would happen to the armed forces etc. should SNP plans for independence actually happen.

The plans will adopt a “best of British” theme. They will include:

● Keeping the Queen as Scotland’s head of state and the royal family.

● Keeping the pound as Scotland’s currency.

● Relying on the Bank of England to anchor for that currency.

● Allowing interest rates to be set by the London-based Monetary Policy Committee for the whole of the UK.

● Creating a new “social union” between Scotland and England to replace the existing parliamentary union.

● Keeping UK embassies as joint UK/Scottish bases.

● Keeping most BBC programmes in their usual places – so Scots can continue to watch EastEnders and their other favourite shows at the usual time.

● Allowing British defence forces to use Scottish bases and to work alongside Scottish service personnel.

● Setting up only the most minimal control posts on the Scottish–English border.

● Keeping the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency as the body organising driving licences for the whole of the UK, including an independent Scotland.

● Keeping the same sort of vehicle number plates in an independent Scotland as in the rest of the UK.

[stupotvtr]

Not sure how accurate that is mate because last night on tv they were saying if Scotland went independent they would have to rejoin the euro zone which would mean converting to the euro :s

[martinmac]

Not sure how accurate that is mate because last night on tv they were saying if Scotland went independent they would have to rejoin the euro zone which would mean converting to the euro :s

Yeah thought i heard that too, was thinking after I posted that this list may actually be the proposed changes under the "devo max" option, I give up, my head hurts in this thread now lol.

[stupotvtr]

Same mate! Think there needs to be facts laid out to everyone before we vote....I know that's years away but I don't want to make the wrong choice.

[BBM]

Salmond's a cunt.

Man is a pompous arsehole who think's he's a gift from god.

All the parties up here are as bad as each other.

[Heliosphan]

Same mate! Think there needs to be facts laid out to everyone before we vote....I know that's years away but I don't want to make the wrong choice.

Facts are one thing but if you voted for independence you probably wouldn't know whether you'd made the right decision for years or decades.

I'm not Scottish myself but I think a referendum is the right thing to do. Having said that, I wonder exactly how many people will be in a position to make an informed choice. We had a referendum last year on AV and a lot of people couldn't even get their heads around how that worked never mind something as complex as Scottish independence.

As for the Best of British list, it reads like some sort of unfinished college project that was thrown together inside 5 minutes. I'm sure the devil is in the detail somewhere but perhaps the most important thing is being able to tune into Eastenders at the usual time :A:

[mtpagey]

genuine question to you Scottish members do you want it or do you not?

I'm personally all for it, from what i've seen on the news/debates etc it seems a pretty 50/50 split though so who knows what will happen

[stupotvtr]

On Scottish bbc news apparently 1/3 of scots would vote for independance at the moment.

[Toms112]

Whats the highest any Scot can jump?

[DundeeUnited]

Not sure tbh mate, the other option is called "devo max", which suggests maximum devolved powers, but I don't think there is clarification yet as to what "maximum" is?

I found this on a website though to clear up some issues, I.e. what would happen to the armed forces etc. should SNP plans for independence actually happen.

may i say mate, salmond does not want to keep the pound, on the news he is vowing for the euro, which would be utter suicide to scotland in terms of a reputable stable nation. we would have little or no chance of surviving in a financial climate which every country is pulling out of