catcam 743

[unreal106]

after the launch of the new catcam 743 has any one got any dyno graphs comparing these to the older 708s or phase 3's ? is the power spread over a broader range or is the new gain all in the top end?

[jpsaxo]

Would you be keeping it on standard TB? Also are you keeping standard pistons mate?

[KamRacing]

The power is spread over the whole range. Its a mild improvement over the 708 camshafts in all areas.

[Wee_monkey1987]

There's already on thread on this see this:

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...ghlight=Catcam

[Wee_monkey1987]

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408670&highlight=Catcam

my bad this one ^^^

[KamRacing]

We have the Cat Cams 1321743 (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen-saxo-vts-fast-road-camshaft-set-cat-cams-1321743.html) in stock and ready for next day delivery :D

[unreal106]

a nice gain to be had then

seems I may have to invest kam anyone after a set of phase 3s ?

[jpsaxo]

Kam - How do the 743 compare with the 737? (obviously the 737 is higher lift)

[KamRacing]

the 1321737 (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/cat-cams-1321737.html) is a more lairy camshaft. Its got longer duration cams on both the exhaust and inlet side and has more lift. It requires uprated springs (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/cat-cams-pac-s90015.html) and retainers (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/cat-cams-99311-s.html) and most likely headwork to allow the cam to rotate fully. I'd expect it to make more power, but most likely a lot higher idle and poor emissions if running a standard inlet. It probably would work better with throttle bodies.

The 1321743 (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/camshafts/citroen-saxo-vts-fast-road-camshaft-set-cat-cams-1321743.html) is still designed to be fitted without any other upgrades being needed other than a remap. Its making 4 bhp over the 708 with its new shape camshaft lobes

[jpsaxo]

Excellent, so Tom should be making 155-160 instead of 708's 150-155 bhp then :)

[jeffchiz]

i think anything over 150bhp with out itbs and standard bottom end on a n/a car is a over reading dyno, im so worried my car isnt going to make much more than toms lol ill never live it down if his makes more than mine :S im gonna shit on his pillow if it doesnt make more

[KamRacing]

well whatever the rolling road figure...the 1321743 is 4 bhp better than the 1321708.
On the road it should be faster. End of the day thats all that matters.

[jeffchiz]

well whatever the rolling road figure...the 1321743 is 4 bhp better than the 1321708.
On the road it should be faster. End of the day thats all that matters.

i thought it was an average of 3bhp? im just being pedantic now lol

[KamRacing]

3-4......its still more lol

[unreal106]

More is better kam when you call tomorrow we need to talk about all these bits

[Ryan]

i think anything over 150bhp with out itbs and standard bottom end on a n/a car is a over reading dyno, im so worried my car isnt going to make much more than toms lol ill never live it down if his makes more than mine :S im gonna shit on his pillow if it doesnt make more

Bodies improve midrange rather than peak power.

Whole reason people feel they make more peak power is because they alloy you to actually run some proper cam profiles.

[jeffchiz]

Bodies improve midrange rather than peak power.

Whole reason people feel they make more peak power is because they alloy you to actually run some proper cam profiles.

Yes I know, hence me saying I'm worried if my car doesn't make more power than toms car, because I'm not expecting to get a higher peak power, I'm running 708's with jenveys with a pred he's running 743's on standard inlet and management will be interesting to see my out come compared too his is

tom made 2.9bhp more on 743's so basically im hoping my bodies give more than 3bhp lol either way our cars are gonna be not far off each other and ive spent a shit load more money, ive basically bought the noise lol then again my car seemed to be marginally faster when we both had standard 16v engines so we'll see

[Ryan]

Fit better cams ;)

[jeffchiz]

Fit better cams ;)

give me more money ha being a student im fairly happy with the car ive built so far :) wouldnt have done it without toms help though

[Olly]

Have these cams come about through matt sav?

I wouldnt have thought a new design camshaft would be brought out for a car that hasnt been manufactured for nearly 10 years?

[ers10weys91]

What is the actual of degree?
INTAKE 256° , EXHAUST 256°
or
INTAKE 230° , EXHAUST 230°

which one to be degree?

[axsaxoman]

Yes I know, hence me saying I'm worried if my car doesn't make more power than toms car, because I'm not expecting to get a higher peak power, I'm running 708's with jenveys with a pred he's running 743's on standard inlet and management will be interesting to see my out come compared too his is

tom made 2.9bhp more on 743's so basically im hoping my bodies give more than 3bhp lol either way our cars are gonna be not far off each other and ive spent a shit load more money, ive basically bought the noise lol then again my car seemed to be marginally faster when we both had standard 16v engines so we'll see
2-3 bhp more ?
thats so close as to be classed as expertimental error or even just a slghtly colder test day
on 150 bhp 3 bhp is only 2% and just a coller day can make nearly 10bhp on a rolling road
diff between warm +cold g/box is 8bhp on an MA box.
I certainly would n,t be advising anybody to change camshafts for that difference --better map could make alot more than that or even just better quality fuel --more difference than that in supermarket verus branded fuel.
if you have both graphs lay one over the other and if curve is the same but one is higher all the way --then it will be dyno /temp on the day difference

[jeffchiz]

2-3 bhp more ?
thats so close as to be classed as expertimental error or even just a slghtly colder test day
on 150 bhp 3 bhp is only 2% and just a coller day can make nearly 10bhp on a rolling road
diff between warm +cold g/box is 8bhp on an MA box.
I certainly would n,t be advising anybody to change camshafts for that difference --better map could make alot more than that or even just better quality fuel --more difference than that in supermarket verus branded fuel.
if you have both graphs lay one over the other and if curve is the same but one is higher all the way --then it will be dyno /temp on the day difference

erm... i think your talking to the wrong person here, catcams got pug1off to do the trial and then catcams released the results i think you might want to be talking to them if you have any queries with there new cams

anyway tom made closer to 140 than 150 (141-144) at rs tuning where it was taken place, and as far as i know about 3/4 sets of cams were tested in the same day

im not telling anyone to change there camshafts, im certainaly not, but why would you buy 708's over 743's? They wouldnt have developed a new cam thats worse and then sell it and replace a very popular cam thats tried and tested

tom has his power graphs again better to speak to him

[jeffchiz]

Have these cams come about through matt sav?

I wouldnt have thought a new design camshaft would be brought out for a car that hasnt been manufactured for nearly 10 years?

yea you can buy the cams through matt at pug1off if thats what your asking? and they must still think theres plenty of money to be made

[KamRacing]

Have these cams come about through matt sav?

I wouldnt have thought a new design camshaft would be brought out for a car that hasnt been manufactured for nearly 10 years?

why not. We are still developing parts for cars 10 years old. If theres a market then its worth doing. Cat cams never hold still with development. They have revised a few other race cams for the TU5J4 engine as well.
We are working with Cat Cams on other engines and cars people might think are 'old'

If you have cat cams 1321708 (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen-saxo-vts-fast-road-camshafts-cat-cams-1321708.html) fitted its not going to be worth swapping to the new design but if you want a set of camshafts and are running standard then get the newer 1321743 (http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen-saxo-vts-fast-road-camshaft-set-cat-cams-1321743.html). Preferably through us lol.

[KamRacing]

yea you can buy the cams through matt at pug1off if thats what your asking? and they must still think theres plenty of money to be made

Matt Saville is Cat Cams uk -the UK contact for all us distributors

[Catcams_uk]

We're constantly working on new profile designs. Having our own design software (written in-house) allows us to produce the best cam profiles available.

We had an idea on how to improve the 708 profile and it worked :)

Back to back tests at RS Tuning who's results have always proved reliable in the past and Paul's remapping capability is second to none.

Mattsav

[Catcams_uk]

Have these cams come about through matt sav?

I wouldnt have thought a new design camshaft would be brought out for a car that hasnt been manufactured for nearly 10 years?

We're updating cams that are much older than that. Lots of design work to do on classic engines. A lot of the old profiles were designed before computers so the gains from new profiles can be very impressive!!