Big Performance Gain Wanted!

[MrSmyth]

Im Basically looking for a large performance gain, preferably Acceleeration, top speed is not a neccesity, just acclerration. I dont have massive amounts of money so i cant afford brand new £3000- £5000 Superchargers/ Turbos,

Ive already got an Enclosed Raceland and Sportex Sports Back Box, I just want more power/ acceleration

[Tom5190]

big performance gain needs money end of. what power you want and what budget you got?

[Tontsy]

strip it, remove everything other than drivers seat, seat belt, steering wheel, clock and hazard buttons.

instantly quicker. and for free.

[blackie_2k5]

try here tom:

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421926

[ed-bradley]

What car/engine is it too start off with?

Cheapest, and one of the easiest is a 16v conversion.. Then go from there.

[Ryan]

With BIG performance there always will be a cost.

[MrSmyth]

As Linked by Blackie_2k5 ive thought about new gearboxes but i know they often reduce top end speed if theyve got better accleration i.e. the S2 and S1 boxes. but ive got about £600 and want some more power

[MrSmyth]

And its an 8v VTR

[Prickle]

Well for a start id change the budget backbox, airfilter.. and save more. Have a nose at peoples threads, its not cheap at all.


Scrap it and start again mate. no fussin'

[Tom5190]

try here tom:

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421926

lol wtf. i was prepared to help but now i am not.

OP your :homme:

[Ali123]

As Linked by Blackie_2k5 ive thought about new gearboxes but i know they often reduce top end speed if theyve got better accleration i.e. the S2 and S1 boxes. but ive got about £600 and want some more power

got a 1.1 box on my vtr
deffo an improvement from the standard box! if youre after acceleration that'll help

[ed-bradley]

16v VTS engine conversion will get you the most Power per pound at this point then.. £300 or there abouts for another 20+bhp.

[Ryan]

but ive got about £600 and want some more power

Ditch the crappy 8v then and fit a vts/gti engine.

[MrSmyth]

Where can i get them from and how do i go about it?

[ed-bradley]

but ive got about £600 and want some more power

Ditch the crappy 8v then and fit a vts/gti engine.

This.

With £600, you could 16v it, get a 4-2-1 Manifold and a set of camshafts.
Or a Manifold, and then concentrate on uprated brakes/suspension.

Depends entirely on how much power you want, and what the car will be used for most.

[ed-bradley]

Where can i get them from and how do i go about it?

They're sold on here quite often.
I'm selling a 90k engine convesion at the minute ;)

Quite simple to do really aswell.

Engine comes in and out really easy, with little fuss.
Hardest thing I found was getting the gear linkages off:homme:

[MrSmyth]

Its already dropped 60 on SPAX i think? and its used for every day bits like motorway driving and ragging through country roads. And where can i get a 16v? what do i need to do it?

[blackie_2k5]

if it was me...id go 16v, then cams, wouldnt even waste the money on a manifold, from what ive seen, unless your going 160bhp+ theres no point in even changing the manifold, or a decent induction, buy a decent panel filter and improve the cold air feed

[ed-bradley]

Ahh one less thing to worry about then, suspension wise :)

As said, here or ebay for the engines.

You'll need:

-16v engine, engine Loom, 16v ecu, 16v radiator hose.
Thats pretty much it.

Unbolt the 3 engine mounts, disconnect the ecu/loom etc..
Jack the car up as high as you can, support with axle stands.
With 2 jacks lower the engine/gearbox to the floor..
And repeat in reverse.

[MrSmyth]

Cheers man, ive just got a raceland enclosed iduction at the moment,

[MrSmyth]

I wouldnt have a clue what to do or what to buy!

[barwell1992]

id strip it and do the brakes first ...

[MrSmyth]

would the 16v engine on this be any good? http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=419531&highlight=16v+engine

[ed-bradley]

Yep, JP4 engine is generally from a Citroen C2.. they're slightly more powerful than the Saxo/106 J4 engines. By 5bhp if I remember rightly.

[Ryan]

If buying an engine you need more than the engine.

Buy an old VTS if you have your heart set on the car, maybe one thats been crashed. Use it as a donor car taking off all you need.

[MrSmyth]

Too lazy to buy an older one, so as the guy said befroe, engine, loom, cooler? what else would i need?

[ed-bradley]

If buying an engine you need more than the engine.

Buy an old VTS if you have your heart set on the car, maybe one thats been crashed. Use it as a donor car taking off all you need.

I'm also selling my old VTS as spares ;)

Engine and running gear is perfect, is recorded as damaged..so I have no V5.
Everything you need.

[ed-bradley]

Too lazy to buy an older one, so as the guy said befroe, engine, loom, cooler? what else would i need?

Engine, Loom, Ecu, Radiator hoses. Can use your old/current gearbox and shafts etc.

[MrSmyth]

dont know whether to risk it or not

[ed-bradley]

Risk what? An engine conversion?

Theres not much to go wrong when doing it..
Better to buy everything together really, that way you no it all works and goes together.

[MrSmyth]

How much do you think it would all cost?

[ed-bradley]

For a full 16v conversion. £300. Add on £50 for new oils and coolant.

[MrSmyth]

and apparantly i need an engine an ecu of the same year i have at the moment, i also need ' The conversion is really easy. You will need:

Engine
Gearbox
Unlocked ECU
Wiring Loom
VTS Lower rear engine mount
VTS transmission engine mount
NON-VTS/VTR Drivers side mount
VTS throttle cable
VTS exhaust manifold

Ideally you would also need:

VTS Radiator
Top Radiator hose (lower VTR hose you can cut to length)
VTS fan setup

Also:

New engine oil
New gearbox oil
Coolant'

[ed-bradley]

Engine mounts are the same for VT models, so no need to worry about that.

Most people selling full conversions will chuck in the manifold and throttle cables too.

Edit: regarding the same year ecu etc. Generally, it goes on what model (Mk1 or Mk2) your car is.
If you do happen to get a Mk1 ecu and loom etc, and your car is a Mk2.. you can change the interior loom to suit if needed..

[MrSmyth]

what about it needing to be the same year?

[ed-bradley]

It doesn't need to be the same year.

Unless your car is a 2000reg. Then some of those cars are a Crossover model, where citroen changed from Mk1 engines too mk2 engines.

[MrSmyth]

mines a 2003 reg?

[ed-bradley]

You need a 3 plug loom, ecu and Engine then.

Generally found in 2001-2003 models.

[Gandi699]

16v engine or keep the 8v and fit a decent gearbox, remove everything unnecessary, better brakes and get some good tyres so you'll be quicker in bends. Ideally with a 16v you'd want a new cambelt, clutch etc so the costs will mount up

[MrSmyth]

Okay ed, and what would a decent gearbox be gandi?

[ed-bradley]

Some say for cheap thrills, 1.1 gearboxes.
Shorter ratios, slightly better acceleration etc.. But they're not as strong as other gearboxes. ie; don't abuse it 24/7 and it will last forever.

Alot of people go for Rallye boxes from 106's.

[MrSmyth]

but dont the 1.1 gearboxes only have a top speed of about 102mph? i was looking earlier that had something around a top speed of 125 like the vtr one but had better acceleration in 1 2 and 3.

[Gandi699]

For a road car my choice would be 1.4 xsi, s2 rallye or the gti/vts ones. S1 rallye wouldnt be much fun on a daily imo

[ed-bradley]

It depends what you want though.. Speed or acceleration.

You can't do 125mph legally anyway, but you can get up to speed quicker with a shorter ratio box.

[Tom5190]

You never NEED the correct loom you can always get it spliced, its just easier if you do have it but not the end of the world if you dont

[xxo0pko0xx]

make your own turbo kit
see sophia bush's old quickie peoject. boost on budget amd done very well

[MrSmyth]

I'd love speed and acceleration! And make your own turbo!? What the hell?

[MrSmyth]

And what would you need for a budget turbo?

[RyanSaxo]

all useful advice to the guy.

How much does it cost for the paperwork side of things...

changing the engine at the dvla etc

plus the extra cost of your insurance with the different engine. Pretty sure there's a big jump between a vtr and a vts if you're young.

If there is still enough left over from your budget for that then I'd stick the vts engine in. It's a good base to get started with, instant performance jump and then future modifications (funds permitting) would give even better gains.

[devilsadvocate]

all useful advice to the guy.

How much does it cost for the paperwork side of things...

changing the engine at the dvla etc

plus the extra cost of your insurance with the different engine. Pretty sure there's a big jump between a vtr and a vts if you're young.

If there is still enough left over from your budget for that then I'd stick the vts engine in. It's a good base to get started with, instant performance jump and then future modifications (funds permitting) would give even better gains.

Unless he is 21+ with a few years NCB then declaring the conversion alone will cost more than his £600 budget.

[Gandi699]

And what would you need for a budget turbo?

Theres plenty of threads on this, but its not going to come cheap and £600 isnt going to get you much. The ECU cost alone is that much nearly, add mapping and engine internal parts/trubo easily could go to treble or quadruple that probably even more if you want the setup to be "good" and not a bodge.

[MrSmyth]

But on that Sophia guide she gets all her bits for like £1500 second hand?

[RyanSaxo]

Unless he is 21+ with a few years NCB then declaring the conversion alone will cost more than his £600 budget.

my point exactly.

bet he hasn't taken that into account.

or is a fucking scum bag if he's not going to declare it.

[MrSmyth]

Woah woah woah guys. Course I'd declare it. Got 3 ync and I'm 20. And on multicar. My insurance is £500 as it is

[RyanSaxo]

Woah woah woah guys. Course I'd declare it. Got 3 ync and I'm 20. And on multicar. My insurance is £500 as it is

haha that's sound then. Pretty cheap insurance - I pay just over 1000 with 4 years no claims at 21 on my vts with my basic mods declared (suspension, exhaust etc).

how much is left from your 600 budget after declaring a vts conversion? if it's about 400 left, as said above then go for the vts engine conversion.

even in standard form they're a noticeable difference from the vtr

[Saxovch22]

1.1 gearbox and stripped out

I'm sure the top speed of the 1.1 box is something like 120

[MrSmyth]

RyanSaxo have you converted yours? cheers for the advice :D

[RyanSaxo]

RyanSaxo have you converted yours? cheers for the advice :D

nah I sold my 1.1 for a vtr, then that got written off by someone else, so put some more money in and got the vts.

[Quick]

Sell R, and buy a proper S!

Or NOS, a couple of big bottles should do the job...............................

[Beech36]

VTS gearbox to help acceleration. Cammed air filter decat. 4-2-1 remap?