is this possible xsara 2.0 vts 6 speed gearbox on a saxo vts

[bridgey1234]

is this possible xsara 2.0 vts 6 speed gearbox on a saxo vts
can this be done or is it not true

thanks

[knight-22]

Same engine/gearbox as the 306 gti.. I think?


http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248487

Edit: Sorry just re-read, you only want the gearbox...

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-369368.html

[dannygti]

As far as I'm aware te xsara uses the 5speed with the 'gti-6' engine.
So the 6speed gti-6 gearbox won't fit as it has a completely different bellhousing.
There are ways you can do it but none of them even remotely cheap and then you might aswell use a better gearbox to start with.

[KamRacing]

you could probably fit a custom bellhousing adaptor, but you would be better off fitting a close ratio gearset.

[dannygti]

you could probably fit a custom bellhousing adaptor, but you would be better off fitting a close ratio gearset.

And by the time you have done that you might aswell have started with a close ratio standard gearbox from a different marque.

[swampy]

Xsara doesn't have a six speed box!!!

Only the gti6 has a six speed box!!!

Enjoy the (lack) of turning circle if you manage to get it fitted!!!

[KamRacing]

And by the time you have done that you might aswell have started with a close ratio standard gearbox from a different marque.

probably. Cant say I was massively impressed by the gti6 gearbox. Its alright on the road but theres many better out there if you want close ratios.
People see 6 as better than 5 and gloss out the rest...

[AXracing]

bucky did this one quite a few years ago. It was not all that hard though did use a few 106 cup parts that are hard to find these days

[KamRacing]

was it a drag race car? My 205 was terrible for turning right and thats wider than a saxo!
I've driven a Citroen ZX with one fitted and I had to do silly manoeuvres to get down a circular down ramp on a multi story carpark.

[tweeqd]

i nearly put a 6 speed in mine, you can put the 6 speed box in a BE4 belhousing and cut and box the chassis but will loose right hand lock, the xsara vts box is a much better box and only 5 speed so will fit easyer

[MiniGibbo]

Why do you loose right hand lock..?

[AlexB]

Why do you loose right hand lock..?

cause the gearbox is longer and site closer to the front side of the left wheel

[dannygti]

I can't understand why you'd lose lock also. The gearbox wouldn't physically foul on the gearbox so don't understand why you would need to fit a stop in the rack.

[MiniGibbo]

Aha makes sence, wouldn't that push the left wheel around though matching the right wheel so you'd basically be turning slightly right all the time..?

[dannygti]

cause the gearbox is longer and site closer to the front side of the left wheel

But it doesnt foul the wheel so what difference would it make?

[AlexB]

But it doesnt foul the wheel so what difference would it make?

i was told a while back it did on the 205s so assumed the saxo it would aswell??

[MiniGibbo]

Ignore me I read your reply wrong, you loose lock because the wheel touches the box :O

[dannygti]

From the measurements I've seen and the picture of a 6speed box TU engined 106/Saxo it doesn't actually go past the chassis leg so if you were hitting the box you'd have more things to worry about.

[AlexB]

im only going off whats been said before danny people whove had it could clear the issue up but that was my understanding

[Ryan]

From the measurements I've seen and the picture of a 6speed box TU engined 106/Saxo it doesn't actually go past the chassis leg so if you were hitting the box you'd have more things to worry about.

Tis why you need to box the chassis leg quite a bit to get it to even fit.

[dannygti]

Tis why you need to box the chassis leg quite a bit to get it to even fit.

You might have to box it to fit but if it doesn't protrude past the leg then it won't make a difference to lock. And the picture I saw of one it didn't go past the chassis rail.

[tweeqd]

i measured it up in my ax and it would 100% need the chassis notching and would stick out in to the wheel arch by about an inch

so you would still get full left hand lock but the tyre would hit the end of the box on right hand lock

[MiniGibbo]

If the wheel touches the box that would fail an mot, how do people get around this..?

[tweeqd]

you have to put a stop on the rack so it wont have all the lock available

[KamRacing]

The gearbox intruded significantly on my 205 and on the ZX. The 106 chassis is not wider than the ZX.
The wheel will phyisically touch the gearbox. Its why there is a nice protective plate as standard on the gearbox. To stop this you need to modify the steering rack with a stop to limit the steering movement.

[MiniGibbo]

Are the racks easy to mod, you can get little plates that look like "C" to limit the lock on BMW racks..?

[KamRacing]

Its not something I bothered to do to know to be honest. I felt is spoilt the car as an everyday drive, parked it up, gutted the car to a bare shell and decided to make a more uncompromising car with a better gearbox.

[dannygti]

The gearbox intruded significantly on my 205 and on the ZX. The 106 chassis is not wider than the ZX.
The wheel will phyisically touch the gearbox. Its why there is a nice protective plate as standard on the gearbox. To stop this you need to modify the steering rack with a stop to limit the steering movement.

This would depend how the engine mounts..


All I'm saying is I've seen pictures of one DONE and the box never protruded past the chassis leg. Martin knows the one I mean.. I will have a look for the pics again.

[swampy]

You might have to box it to fit but if it doesn't protrude past the leg then it won't make a difference to lock. And the picture I saw of one it didn't go past the chassis rail.

Even the 306gti6 as standerd has more lock one way than the other

[dannygti]

You can do it with a BE4r bellhousing ( which I presume is more compact?) and mix and match a lot of other bits (btw I don't know exactly how it's done) to male a bE4r 6 speed..

They are approx 2-2 1/2" longer than a regular BE4r box.
There is approx 3" from the end of a standard BE4r to the outside of the chassis leg.

Tbh I can't imagine it's going to change anything..


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/dannysax/ae9cacdd.jpg


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/dannysax/b9f72ce1.jpg

[dannygti]

Besides, if it's for a track car it wouldn't need loads of steering lock anyway.

[swampy]

Looks like you gave the "I want that one" syndrome at present and no matter what you get told you are having it

So good luck but don't be surprised if you come across all the issues named above

[dannygti]

Looks like you gave the "I want that one" syndrome at present and no matter what you get told you are having it

So good luck but don't be surprised if you come across all the issues named above

If that's aimed at me it makes no sense at all?

[tweeqd]

the picture of the 2 boxes you have posted danny is deceiving, the bell housig on a be4 is langer then a 6 box so byt the time you add that length and the length of the extra 5th/6th housing it will defo stick out past the chassis leg

you could still drive the car and as a track car it would prob be ok but the reason i didnt do it was the wheel already hit the arch on full lock so i already dont have full lock and adding the length of the box would limiti this even more

i am half tempted to do it just to say i have ;)

[dannygti]

Martin, I'm not sure how things are on the AX but you even commented in this thread where it was one of the guys friends that did it and he said there was no problem with steering lock..

http://www.106rallyeforum.com/forum2008/showthread.php?p=782531#post782531





11-11-2011, 09:27 PM * #190
dexxa1234
REGISTERED FORUM USER - NON MEMBER
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: italy
Posts: 8

http://www.psa-evolution.com/Evo%202...4_capitolo.htm

i know this man, and have not problem whit sterring, all sterring component stock
*

[dannygti]

I think 6 speed box is the way forward on these small cc engines.

[tweeqd]

thats what made me thi9nk about doinf it, i even bought a 6 speed (now sold it lol) and stripped it down and pulled out my 5 speed but once id measured it up it would of limited the lock (prob not by much but it would of done)

im now tempted again as it might help keep my car in boost

[AXracing]

On Buckys old car it did stick out but not by far. I think it really would depend on the wheels and suspension setup your using as to how much it would effect everything. It can be made to have a perfectly usable amount of lock. More then some production road cars at least so not unsafe as some may have you believe.

[KamRacing]

Its not unsafe if your wheel is prevented from touching it. Just avoid mini roundabouts, tight t-junctions and multi storey car parks :D

[jeffchiz]

as some of you may know i live with a pug1off mechanic and he works around 205s and gti6 engines all day as these are the most popular conbinations of cars and engines they deal with and the majority of conversions use the 5 speed box as you DO loose full lock with the 6 speed box

he just text me and said "with a 6 spped box on full right hand lock the left wheel rubs, well you cant reach full becuase the box protrudes in to the arch too much. We notch the steering rack to stop customers getting to that point"

[dannygti]

It's not a good comparison to make with the 306's and 205's as the XU engines people use in them are a fair bit wider than the TU engine.

[Tom5190]

as some of you may know i live with a pug1off mechanic and he works around 205s and gti6 engines all day as these are the most popular conbinations of cars and engines they deal with and the majority of conversions use the 5 speed box as you DO loose full lock with the 6 speed box

he just text me and said "with a 6 spped box on full right hand lock the left wheel rubs, well you cant reach full becuase the box protrudes in to the arch too much. We notch the steering rack to stop customers getting to that point"

These are on about in a 106/saxo with TU engine sam.

Ive never seen one in so couldnt comment on it but i do know it sticks a fair way out of a 205!

[jeffchiz]

These are on about in a 106/saxo with TU engine sam.

Ive never seen one in so couldnt comment on it but i do know it sticks a fair way out of a 205!

thanks for telling me something i knew dickhead

[Tom5190]

thanks for telling me something i knew dickhead

lmao defos giving you pink eye now and theres nothing you can do about it