Remap and can a VTS....?

[Spuddy09]

Just wanted to know how much bhp is added if I put cams on a VTS and remap it after. Mine is standard so far as I have only just converted it

[NismoSteve]

You see all sorts of figures banded about, but it mostly depends on, condition of the engine, what breathing mods have been done and who's mapped it.

I have no personal experience with the TU engine, just going on experience from other engines I've done before.
I'm planning to boost mine;)

[Spuddy09]

My engine has done 28k and very clean. New engine oil, gearbox oil, radiator water etc

[NismoSteve]

My engine has done 28k and very clean. New engine oil, gearbox oil, radiator water etc

Only just run in then! It should respond well to cams and mapping, but it may be more cost effective to improve the breathing before spending out on mapping, you get MUCH better gains that way and it wwill only neep mapping the once.

[Spuddy09]

Only just run in then! It should respond well to cams and mapping, but it may be more cost effective to improve the breathing before spending out on mapping, you get MUCH better gains that way and it wwill only neep mapping the once.

What can I do about the breather then??

[jeffchiz]

by breathing people mean a decent air filter, 4 branch manifold and a decent exhasut to get the car moving the gases more effectively

you will usually see 140-150bhp max on cams and a map you get people with readouts of 160bhp+ with cams which is a load of bollocks

with catcam 743's and a map on a rolling road you will probably get the most bhp for your money, not sure how ph3's stand up against 743's though

i have jenvey throttle bodies and catcam 708's (slightly older version of the 743's) and i made 155bhp, the catcam 743's give on average 3bhp extra over 708's, is hardly anything but as they cost the same amount, so everyone is getting 743's now

[Spuddy09]

Ok mate. What is the best air filter/induction kit

[NismoSteve]

Ok mate. What is the best air filter/induction kit


The list is long, as are the debates about which is best. On most of my previous engines I've run open cone filters with a good cold air feed, a lot use the enclosed BMC filters (on my vts) but I'm not sure how good they are for the money.

A good steel free flowing exhaust manifold and system will help getting it breathing better.

You could literally poor endless amounts of cash on tuning.
The good thing about saxos is that there is a good turn around of used parts which makes things affordable.
Saxo tuning seems to be very compulsive and trend following, and then changing the car and selling up the tuning goodies:)

[Mike-VTR]

As Jeff has said, breathing refers to all the gases flowing in and out of your car, not just in.

air filters/induction kits are not what you should be looking at. if your going cams and a remap your gunna wanna get a 4 branch manifold, a straight through and a backbox. air filters are much for much and not really that important.

[Spuddy09]

Ok pal, so what is a decent straight through exhaust system to get ... Stuff the induction kit for now

[NismoSteve]

As Jeff has said, breathing refers to all the gases flowing in and out of your car, not just in.

air filters/induction kits are not what you should be looking at. if your going cams and a remap your gunna wanna get a 4 branch manifold, a straight through and a backbox. air filters are much for much and not really that important.

With respect I disagre with your comment regarding air filtration. As basic tuning goes, this is the first area you start. Its also one of the most important elements of the engine as far as doing what it says on the tin.

Paper element filters are restrictive and clog easily. But some cheap kits should be avoided too. K&N have always been a trusted brand although they seem to be out of favour these days.
All to often people dismiss the importance, I guess people look at it as more of a fashion thing than a function thing.

[Spuddy09]

Decent straight through system??

[saxova]

Super-sprint RASPPPPP.

[Spuddy09]

How much r they bro

[Wee_monkey1987]

if de-cat you'll dramatically improve flow in the exhaust, relatively cheap to do and you will gain some hp, also adjusting the valve timing a few degrees will make a difference

[Spuddy09]

It's already de-catted, what is the valve timing?

[RyanSaxo]

have a look around the other threads that get started weekly on exhausts mate.

however if you're really lazy buy these bits, in this order of importance:

exhaust system

Kam system (lightest and stainless)
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/full-exhaust-systems/kam-racing-kam-racing-race-exhaust-system.html

or

Supersprint middle pipe with Kam backbox
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/full-exhaust-systems/kam-racing-supersprint-race-system-citroen-saxo.html

or

Supersprint system
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/full-exhaust-systems/citroen-saxo-supersprint-race-exhaust-system-exclusive-to-kam-racing.html

Induction Kit

BMC CDA
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/enclosed-induction-kits/bmc-cda-enclosed-induction-kit-citroen-saxo-1-6-16v-vts.html

or

K&N Gen II
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/enclosed-induction-kits/citroen-saxo-vts-kandn-57i-gen-ii-induction-kit.html

or

K&N Apollo
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/enclosed-induction-kits/citroen-saxo-vts-1997-2004-kandn-apollo-induction-kit.html

Manifold

supersprint - the best in my eyes
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/supersprint-inox-race-manifold-citroen-saxo-16v.html

or

piper - another good one
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/piper-4-1-exhaust-manifold-citroen-saxo-16v.html

or

Janspeed - cheaper if you're on a budget
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-exhaust/exhaust-manifold/janspeed-4-2-1-exhaust-manifold-citroen-saxo-vts.html

Cams

cat cam 743's - the ones I would get
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/camshafts/citroen-saxo-vts-fast-road-camshaft-set-cat-cams-1321743.html

or

Ph3's
http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/citroen-saxo/saxo-engine/camshafts/newman-ph3-fast-road-camshafts-citroen-saxo-vts.html

then you'll ideally want an ecu and remap or get your standard ecu remapped.

Should get you the ~150bhp mark.

Obviously you want good suspension and brakes as well as good tyres to make the most of the power.

Also, I've linked Kamracing but that doesn't necessarily mean they're the cheapest, just the website is a good layout. Although they're a really good company and helped me out numerous times, I'd definitely recommend them.

[Wee_monkey1987]

vts engines use vernier pulleys if you adjust the a few degrees to advance or retard the inlet exhaust valve opening periods you can increase/decrease the engines bhp/torque output - obviously you need to know what your doing but this FREE tuning can make some small differences

[jeffchiz]

vts engines use vernier pulleys if you adjust the a few degrees to advance or retard the inlet exhaust valve opening periods you can increase/decrease the engines bhp/torque output - obviously you need to know what your doing but this FREE tuning can make some small differences

I really wouldn't suggest he starts messing around with valve timing, if he goes for cams they come with specific cam angles to use for the best power which I highly suggest a garage dose, even though vts's have vernier pulleys they are no where near as easy to use as aftermarket ones takes around 2 hours to set up cams on standard pulleys or a few min with aftermarket ones, you would also need a rolling road of your straying away from the specified angles as you could be loosing power