need more bhp on my 1.6 vtr 8v sitting at 120bhp atm

[vtr-turbo]

i want to add more bhp to my vtr at the moment its sitting at 120bhp with a straight through and a k&n air filter

any suggestions to what i could do to increase it?

[jayline]

is that all your car is running? and what makes are these parts as to see 120 with them two is very unlikely!

[jasonmayall]

20bhp from an exhaust and filter... wow.
remap? Did you have it RR'd?

[holdawayt]

It wont be running 120bhp from an exhaust and filter.

Your name suggests the car is turbo'd. If thats the case look into injectors, standalone management etc.

[Quick]

8 more valves!

[jasonmayall]

It wont be running 120bhp from an exhaust and filter.

Your name suggests the car is turbo'd. If thats the case look into injectors, standalone management etc.

Hadnt noticed that... 120bhp from a turbo is very poor though. I doubt it would be though because i would assume he would have mentioned it with the exhaust and filter.

OP- Your next step would probly be to add a cam in there.

[NismoSteve]

If only tuning worked that way, my old S14 would have had about a thousand horses!

[Ryan]

120bhp from those mods - no chance that's either adding on figures or a quote me happy set of rollers.

Ditch the 8v and go for the 16v lump.

[Karl]

+1 Ryan

[devilsadvocate]

i want to add more bhp to my vtr at the moment its sitting at 120bhp with a straight through and a k&n air filter

any suggestions to what i could do to increase it?

As people have said, 120bhp from those mods on a VTR is not possible.

What sort of filter is it, replacement panel, cone, enclosed?

[jeffchiz]

You'll be lucky to have 100bhp

[Gandi699]

Dont discount the 8v, they can make good power with a few trick bits. Unfortunately a filter and exhaust system is not enough

[vtr-turbo]

i bought the car and was told by the previous owner that was the amount of bhp it had so they obviously was talking shit, i was told there was some type of silver head engine

[vtr-turbo]

i dont know much about it so any help is nice

[CJMackin]

i bought the car and was told by the previous owner that was the amount of bhp it had so they obviously was talking shit, i was told there was some type of silver head engine

That means its a later type vtr engine, 100brake standard, but pipe and filter alone wont give you 20 brake

A cam would be the next step

[Gandi699]

Standard silvertop isnt amazing, especially with roller rockers and soft valve springs

[vtr-turbo]

where would i get a good one??

[Cam]

Get a 16v you will spend so much tuning a 8v and will just about break even with 16v power standerd.

[vtr-turbo]

would better rockers and valve springs do much?

[vtr-turbo]

it isnt turbod yet but i will be planning on doing it at some stage

[jasonmayall]

No need to replace the rockers at this stage.
Better springs would benefit, but again not at this stage.
Go for a performance cam (upgrade your valve springs at this stage if you want).
However, if you plan on going turbo, the cam will be irrelevant.

[NismoSteve]

it isnt turbod yet but i will be planning on doing it at some stage

If your really going to turbo it, then leave it alone for now. Have a good search through some 8 valve turbo builds and concentrate on collecting all the parts you'll need.
But for now spending money on handling and braking would be your best bet, to make full use of the power you have.

Fitting a turbo is very worthwhile on the vtr, as if it pops you can pick up another engine for peanuts and between 150-200bhp is quite achievable.
But make sure you know what your getting yourself into and work out the costs involved.
Parts for boosting can be had relatively cheaply if you get get good used gear.

[blackie_2k5]

That means its a later type vtr engine, 100brake standard, but pipe and filter alone wont give you 20 brake

A cam would be the next step

Silver tops came in 90 and 98 form

[mcjacko1987]

Silver tops came in 90 and 98 form

i thought it was black top 90 and silver top 98

[blackie_2k5]

No

Late mk1's and early mk2's have a 90bhp silver top, any 2001> with 3plug ecu has 98

[CJMackin]

Silver tops came in 90 and 98 form

I stand corrected!

[jeffchiz]

dear god how many more times will people get confused between black and silver tops lol

to give you an idea of how much work is invovled in getting 120bhp out of a vtr, the most common route is to fit the s1 rallye cylinder head, inlet manifold, a ph2 cam and a remap plus you'll want the rallye ecu and loom, thats best part of a grand there

or

spend around £300 on a 16v conversion, much less hassle swapping engines than to take the 8v apart

or more to the point this is all pointless if you are turboing, really need to decide what you are going to do and what you are dreaming to do

[greyjasper51]

125bhp from a vtr needs race/rally cam, pugsport exhaust and standalone ecu with standard everything else... Including exhaust mani, it wont tick over nicely....

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[chrisy_vtr]

more info on adding a cam?

[blackie_2k5]

more info on adding a cam?

Pointless unless you have deep pockets and going throttle bodies


If anyone's interested my rebuilt rallye head and inlet is up for sale by the lad that just bought it

If you REALLY set on tuning an 8v without spending out on bodies or turbo, then fitting the above and a remap is the most sensible thing to do

Give you some gains and won't bust the bank

[asher1990]

No

Late mk1's and early mk2's have a 90bhp silver top, any 2001> with 3plug ecu has 98

Mine is an x plate and silver top and has a 3 plug ecu so how do u work that out?

[jeffchiz]

Mine is an x plate and silver top and has a 3 plug ecu so how do u work that out?

because an x reg can be a 2001....

anyway as the majority of people no there is never a definite cut off point ive seen mk1's on plates later than a v reg which isnt supposed to happen, things dont always go by the book

[jasonmayall]

Mine is an x plate and silver top and has a 3 plug ecu so how do u work that out?

It's a fact... Think you just read it wrong

[blackie_2k5]

Most x reg ive seen were registered in 20001 lol

As said cars can sit in dealers with plates allocated for that time slot that were never sold until.. Or were sold/registered before they should have been

There is always some exceptions.. But yeah in many instances an x is a very late 2000 early 2001... If it was a big dealer he probs got his new supply of cars (3 plug) early and they were straight out the door

[jasonmayall]

Most x reg ive seen were registered in 20001 lol

As said cars can sit in dealers with plates allocated for that time slot that were never sold until.. Or were sold/registered before they should have been

There is always some exceptions.. But yeah in many instances an x is a very late 2000 early 2001... If it was a big dealer he probs got his new supply of cars (3 plug) early and they were straight out the door

.... ;)

[blackie_2k5]

Stop trying to nit pick ;)

[mcjacko1987]

my furio was a silvertop, but with single plug ecu, old shape plug loom (not cross over) but phase 2 body. reg is W and down as 2000.
my mate had if i remember a v reg phase 1 furio that was silvertop single plug ecu, basically same engine set up as mine.
around the 2000 year things got a bit confusing imo.
i just try think of it as pre 1999 black top. 2001 upwards silvertop, 2000 a fuck up lol.

but yeah its off the ecu really isnt it, single plugs 90bhp and 3plug ecu is 98bhp

[jeffchiz]

Yea the engine you had was just an early single plug my w reg vtr had a single plug early silver top engine as w reg is early 2000 it was the ones after that had the cross over looms, my house mate is good ar splicing looms and he's came across some wierd ones its all a bit weird lol

[greyjasper51]

more info on adding a cam?

Kc750 range j or k or r dependad on head

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[greyjasper51]

In all honestly id rather drive a 120hp vtr than a 120hp vts because there more forgiving with a mistake and you dont have to have them screaming their tits off to make power, the 8v is more progressive... What ive found anyway

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[m4tt274]

vtr is more torquey but the vts engine produces more power high up.
becuase of this the vtr feels quicker round town.

my vtr with a toyosport manifold, supersprint, K&N panel filter and a good service made 109bhp at 60,000miles.
doubt you have 120 but good luck if thats what your going for :D

[NismoSteve]

But when it comes to cost why bother NA tuning an 8 valve as for a quarter of the money it would cost to get 120brake, you just just drop a 16 valve engine for the same power?

I'd only use an 8 valve to go boost. Anything other tuning is a waste of money.

[greyjasper51]

For cost just go 8v turbo most value for money but n/a cast efficient 16v lump agreed 100% money no object... I dunno tbf n/a tho... Prob 16v because can get a higher hp overall...

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[blackie_2k5]

Steve has got the nail on the head tbh

The 8v responds very well to a littl boost and is very driven able, other then that I'd just save or 16v

You can make enough power to justify tuning the 8v without boost

[jasonmayall]

In all honestly id rather drive a 120hp vtr than a 120hp vts because there more forgiving with a mistake and you dont have to have them screaming their tits off to make power, the 8v is more progressive... What ive found anyway

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Couldnt agree more. The toruqe on the VTS doesnt really kick in until you're revving the titties off it, I preffer to have a bit of power low down for daily driving, i very rarely take my car above 3-4k which wouldnt be easy if it was a VTS

[Gandi699]

you adapt your driving style with a 16v engine though, besides its not like the VTS doesnt have enough torque lower down the range for town driving

[NismoSteve]

Probably more a case of 16 valve envy lol!

Its the best of both worlds with the S engine. No problem at low revs and when they come on cam they just pull and pull. They love to rev. Its not like thrashing a wheazy 8 valve. Its no effort for the engine.

[Gandi699]

Depends on the 8v and its mapping though, the higher spec 8vs will rev out like a VTS does if not more. However it wont be "peaky" as a VTS or any other 16v hatch really

[hobers4]

i have a vtr with a straight through exhaust and a carbon fiber induction and believe me id be lucky to be getting 85-90bhp? what you need to remember is its 98bhp when it comes out factory u have engine deteration to take into consideration

im gunna get it rolling roaded before i overhaul the engine and gearbox but that aint gunna be for a while yet

[wadoryu]

i have a vtr with a straight through exhaust and a carbon fiber induction and believe me id be lucky to be getting 85-90bhp? what you need to remember is its 98bhp when it comes out factory u have engine deteration to take into consideration

im gunna get it rolling roaded before i overhaul the engine and gearbox but that aint gunna be for a while yet

Any rolling road tech will say unless your car has a serious problem then it will be give or take standard.

[hobers4]

Any rolling road tech will say unless your car has a serious problem then it will be give or take standard.

im just guessing lol it is on 96k but but i tell everyone its 90bhp coz i dont wanna big it up or try get people racing me i enjoy my car low revs not making scream for me to change gear it probabally is running about standard bhp tbh

[titchster]

In all honestly id rather drive a 120hp vtr than a 120hp vts because there more forgiving with a mistake and you dont have to have them screaming their tits off to make power, the 8v is more progressive... What ive found anyway

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To get an 8v to 120bhp, it needs to be pretty tuned. A 16v...? Standard. So the 16v is going to be less stressed, and less prone to problems.

And, an 8v at that power needs a pretty lairy cam, which means the power's going to be as high, if not higher than on a standard 16v.


That's not to mention that if you start adding any of the normal mods to a 16v that you'd have done to the 8v (even before the cam), the 16v is going to have more power.

Having owned a black top 8v, and a (98bhp) silver top 8v, and having raced a 130bhp 8v in my relatively standard 16v on the 1/4 mile, and properly pwning it, I know which I prefer. ;)

[greyjasper51]

120bhp cam, mani back and igniton... Std everything else! Equal car setup... Will beat a 120bhp 16v on track every time

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[Mochachino]

120bhp cam, mani back and igniton... Std everything else! Equal car setup... Will beat a 120bhp 16v on track every time

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Sorry, a 120bhp VTR will beat a 120bhp VTS?

Put the same driver in both car and the VTS will be ahead very easily, power is there in the corners, you drop the gear and the power is there and still makes power further up the rev range for longer. Unlike a VTR, power drops off easily, drop a gear before the corner and you haven't got power and the power tails off too easily.

16v doesnt just mean more power, its about where the power is and the ability to use the power to better effect than where the 8valve makes its power and range.

VTR for boost, if not then go 16v.

[blackie_2k5]

Sorry, a 120bhp VTR will beat a 120bhp VTS?

Put the same driver in both car and the VTS will be ahead very easily, power is there in the corners, you drop the gear and the power is there and still makes power further up the rev range for longer. Unlike a VTR, power drops off easily, drop a gear before the corner and you haven't got power and the power tails off too easily.

16v doesnt just mean more power, its about where the power is and the ability to use the power to better effect than where the 8valve makes its power and range.

VTR for boost, if not then go 16v.

having spent alot on 8v's..this comment is the best way to look at it^^

[titchster]

iLol.

greyjasper,how many times have you compared against a standard VTS on track? I think in the last 4 years of doing track days, i've seen 2 standard Saxos on track. And they were both VTRs.

The only time i've compared against a highly modded 8v on track was on a 1/4 mile. It was a good half a second slower than my 16v.

[greyjasper51]

Straight line... Woopdy woop... Ans thats what i was saying if you could get 200bhp outta a n/a vtr it would be the way dorward but you cant and thats why vts is usually the way forward... Easy cheap power...

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[Mochachino]

Straight line... Woopdy woop...

if a saxo is slower than another saxo in a straight line with the same chassis then its obviously going to be slower on a track

lol

[greyjasper51]

Std 8 vs std 16, 16 wins... Highly modified 8 vs. Highly modified 16, 16 wins, however if power is equal i prefer the 8 as i feel its more forgiving and a better drive obviously alot of people feel differently to me...

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[titchster]

VTS is the way forward because it's got more power full stop. Costs more to get an 8v up to 16v power than it does to put a 16v in. Other than that, on a track, the two cars would be the same.


Why is the 8v more forgiving? In what way? And better to drive? It doesn't idle as smoothly, because of the big cam, it's lacking low down, because of the big cam, and the power's as high as the 16v, or higher, because of the big cam. At what point is the 8v better to drive?

[Mochachino]

Std 8 vs std 16, 16 wins... Highly modified 8 vs. Highly modified 16, 16 wins, however if power is equal i prefer the 8 as i feel its more forgiving and a better drive obviously alot of people feel differently to me...

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You may prefer the VTR, but the VTS produces more power which you can use to greater effect than an 8valve. that bit isnt a preference but a fact.

[greyjasper51]

Yh agreed if i was gonna build an out and out track car i would go 16v because more power is achieveable overall and would be faster...

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[greyjasper51]

if a saxo is slower than another saxo in a straight line with the same chassis then its obviously going to be slower on a track

lol

How it delivers that power through and comming out of a corner...

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[titchster]

You've never actually driven on a track... have you?

[greyjasper51]

You've never actually driven on a track... have you?

Really? Google lewis turner tim parrott motorsport...

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[Ryan]

120bhp cam, mani back and igniton... Std everything else! Equal car setup... Will beat a 120bhp 16v on track every time

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Can't be arsed to see if you replied, but no it won't.

For a start the vts has the better final drive.

[Mochachino]

Ok im going to copy and paste something. Pushed me that far my ctrl and V button is going to be pressed now omg.

"The VTS has a longer rev range so it doesnt matter that the peak figures are higher up, infact its a good thing, as this is where you should be anyway if your driving properly in an NA car.

VTRs run out of grunt high up. So if you drop it down a gear, say from 3rd to 2nd for a tightish corner, in a vts youve got a much bigger range to drop into in the first place, and all the powers there. Then you change gear, and your up in the powerband again in the next gear at say 5.5k all the way to 7.2k.

Change down to the top end of the rev range in a VTR and its powerband tails off as you get near the top so you need to change up before the redline to get the best out of it.

The longer revrange also allows you to be much more flexible in the twisties. Because of the nature of the strong higher powerband you can whack it in at high revs and hold it there all the way round a long bend, then change up as you throw yourself off the corner. It also means you can whack it down into lower gears earlier in order to gearbrake before doing that. Where the VTR wouldnt be as happy to do that as theres less power there and theres not as many RPM to play with.

Hence why VTS's are much better all round. And ehy 16vs isnt just about the extra 20 odd brake. I wasnt mentioning handling when I said it was faster round the corners .

If you think this is bull, take a look at any high powered sports NA engined cars. The S2K for example. Theres fuck all power until later on in the rev range. Shit for pick up and go power, perfect for constant power through the corners with well timed gear choices.

Yes you can raise the rev limit, but that doesnt really solve the problem. Even matched with a lairy cam, your powerbands still going to be much smaller than the VTS, and to get the best power will also be a fair bit smaller than the OEM setup.

It will still be great to drive down the B roads and twisty tracks, but youll have to try really hard to stay in the powerband all the time. This might take the fun out a bit. And due to the powerband being smaller as mentioned, it wont be as able as a VTS. Youll constantly have to keep the engine screaming to get the best out of it.

Some people really like that kinda setup. Its more challenging to drive fast in many aspects. But in reality if the 16v is a better performer, is more flexible both to modify for performance purposes and independantly to drive fast, it is the better choice. Even in a reasonably high end VTS, youve still got a reasonable amount of revs to play with, especially when the limits put upto the 7.8k mark.

So basically, if you tune the VTR to a decent NA spec, it will be highly strung and very peaky. If your gonna be happy with that, then go for it. If your having doubts now, dont bother imo as by the time your done and all the moneys been spent, everytime you drive it youll wonder what you could have had. Which is what you see over and over again with people really into their tuning, spending money on the same parts to different specs over and over"

[greyjasper51]

Can't be arsed to see if you replied, but no it won't.

For a start the vts has the better final drive.

Better final drive for what? Top speed?

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[Mochachino]

Really? Google lewis turner tim parrott motorsport...

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A go-Kart isnt quite the same as a Saxo with a 8v engine vs 16v engine.

Im not being harsh, but experienced people are adding facts to this thread but you are challenging them all with uneducated, unexperienced opinions!

Im not saying that your preference to the VTR is false, thats perfectly fine. A 16v has many advantages over the 8v saxo, apart from its peak power and extra 8valves, its other contributions that are a result of the extra 8valves.

[Ryan]

Better final drive for what? Top speed?

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For overall performance. The vtr final drive is shite for in gear performance.

[greyjasper51]

Ok im going to copy and paste something. Pushed me that far my ctrl and V button is going to be pressed now omg.

"The VTS has a longer rev range so it doesnt matter that the peak figures are higher up, infact its a good thing, as this is where you should be anyway if your driving properly in an NA car.

VTRs run out of grunt high up. So if you drop it down a gear, say from 3rd to 2nd for a tightish corner, in a vts youve got a much bigger range to drop into in the first place, and all the powers there. Then you change gear, and your up in the powerband again in the next gear at say 5.5k all the way to 7.2k.

Change down to the top end of the rev range in a VTR and its powerband tails off as you get near the top so you need to change up before the redline to get the best out of it.

The longer revrange also allows you to be much more flexible in the twisties. Because of the nature of the strong higher powerband you can whack it in at high revs and hold it there all the way round a long bend, then change up as you throw yourself off the corner. It also means you can whack it down into lower gears earlier in order to gearbrake before doing that. Where the VTR wouldnt be as happy to do that as theres less power there and theres not as many RPM to play with.

Hence why VTS's are much better all round. And ehy 16vs isnt just about the extra 20 odd brake. I wasnt mentioning handling when I said it was faster round the corners .

If you think this is bull, take a look at any high powered sports NA engined cars. The S2K for example. Theres fuck all power until later on in the rev range. Shit for pick up and go power, perfect for constant power through the corners with well timed gear choices.

Yes you can raise the rev limit, but that doesnt really solve the problem. Even matched with a lairy cam, your powerbands still going to be much smaller than the VTS, and to get the best power will also be a fair bit smaller than the OEM setup.

It will still be great to drive down the B roads and twisty tracks, but youll have to try really hard to stay in the powerband all the time. This might take the fun out a bit. And due to the powerband being smaller as mentioned, it wont be as able as a VTS. Youll constantly have to keep the engine screaming to get the best out of it.

Some people really like that kinda setup. Its more challenging to drive fast in many aspects. But in reality if the 16v is a better performer, is more flexible both to modify for performance purposes and independantly to drive fast, it is the better choice. Even in a reasonably high end VTS, youve still got a reasonable amount of revs to play with, especially when the limits put upto the 7.8k mark.

So basically, if you tune the VTR to a decent NA spec, it will be highly strung and very peaky. If your gonna be happy with that, then go for it. If your having doubts now, dont bother imo as by the time your done and all the moneys been spent, everytime you drive it youll wonder what you could have had. Which is what you see over and over again with people really into their tuning, spending money on the same parts to different specs over and over"

Its never gonna see the road... Track only... And yeah fast road track use the 16v is better but for the same power outputs i prefer the 8v wtf is wrong with that?! 16v is better in the long run over 130bhp vtr is better under that IMO

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[Ryan]

So from 'same power 8v will beat 16v every time' it's now about what you prefer.. :detective:

[Mochachino]

Its never gonna see the road... Track only... And yeah fast road track use the 16v is better but for the same power outputs i prefer the 8v wtf is wrong with that?! 16v is better in the long run over 130bhp vtr is better under that IMO

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Whether its track or fast road, they both have corners, both have straight lines.

Nothing is wtf wrong with that as I have said in a post above yours.

Im reading some contradictions now though,im sure i saw a 200bhp NA vtr being mentioned a minute ago haha

[titchster]

People always complain about how the power's high up in a 16v (an 8v with a cam will be the same, or higher...), but if you've ever driven a car (not a kart, where the engine characteristics and gearing are completely different) on track, in anger, you'll know that it's extremely rare that you're below 5k on track...



Oh, and a VTS's final drive is a higher number than a VTR's, that means it's better for acceleration, not top speed. ;)

[greyjasper51]

Whether its track or fast road, they both have corners, both have straight lines.

Nothing is wtf wrong with that as I have said in a post above yours.

Im reading some contradictions now though,im sure i saw a 200bhp NA vtr being mentioned a minute ago haha

If i typed r i meant s sorry

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[greyjasper51]

So from 'same power 8v will beat 16v every time' it's now about what you prefer.. :detective:

Imo it will proof of pudding is in the eating...

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[Ryan]

Imo it will proof of pudding is in the eating...

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Yet as stated the vtr gearbox is not anywhere near as good for performance in gear.

So if you have the same power then the vts wins with the superior final drive ;)

You are banging on about the way it drives and delivers power in previous posts, now having a bad gearbox or final drive isn't going to help. Hence why alot of us with track cars have switched boxes to improve performance.

[greyjasper51]

People always complain about how the power's high up in a 16v (an 8v with a cam will be the same, or higher...), but if you've ever driven a car (not a kart, where the engine characteristics and gearing are completely different) on track, in anger, you'll know that it's extremely rare that you're below 5k on track...



Oh, and a VTS's final drive is a higher number than a VTR's, that means it's better for acceleration, not top speed. ;)

Knowing how an engine feels is the same no matter what and yes as is sed before vtr with peaky cam dont like low rpm and if your driving in anger you wont ever go as fast as if your calm... And for someone that says higher number rather than shorter final ratio... Ok

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[greyjasper51]

Double post sorry

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[titchster]

By 'in anger' I meant rather than just pootling round behind a pace car, I meant driving a car, on track, fast. If your revs are below 4.5/5k at any point, you're either in the wrong gear, or your ratios need sorting. Or, if you're in 1st and below them revs, it's a bloody slow corner.

And for someone that says higher number rather than shorter final ratio... Ok


Please tell me you're trying to tell me that i'm wrong for saying a higher FD number means faster acceleration.


*Must tell all those people who've fitted S1 Rallye boxes that the higher final drive number means their car will be faster top speed, and not accelerate as fast...*

[Mochachino]

Knowing how an engine feels is the same no matter what and yes as is sed before vtr with peaky cam dont like low rpm and if your driving in anger you wont ever go as fast as if your calm... And for someone that says higher number rather than shorter final ratio... Ok

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lol he was talking in simpletons terms also, I dont think he means people go out and start getting really angry behind the wheel of a car , rocking back and forth, hitting the steering wheel. Not that kind of anger haha

[greyjasper51]

Shorter final drive sorry

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[titchster]

I dont think he means people go out and start getting really angry behind the wheel of a car , rocking back and forth, hitting the steering wheel. Not that kind of anger haha

It happens:( Some people just don't know when to get outta the way. lol.

[Ryan]

Still waiting for a counter argument as to how two cars with the same power yet one with a final drive which gives you less in gear performance will be faster.......

[Mochachino]

It happens:( Some people just don't know when to get outta the way. lol.

lol! I would pay though to go to a race and see all the drivers bright red shouting in their cars, slamming the doors as they race round haha

[greyjasper51]

It happens:( Some people just don't know when to get outta the way. lol.

Red mist its called... And yh i know the feeling well

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[greyjasper51]

lol! I would pay though to go to a race and see all the drivers bright red shouting in their cars, slamming the doors as they race round haha

Wtf whys my fone double posting? Can everyone else see that?

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[titchster]

lol! I would pay though to go to a race and see all the drivers bright red shouting in their cars, slamming the doors as they race round haha

BTCC, nuff said. But yeah, I tend to get annoyed when people don't let me past.

[greyjasper51]

BTCC, nuff said. But yeah, I tend to get annoyed when people don't let me past.

Lights work and gentlemans hand signals... Then agen might be their first time out...

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[titchster]

Track day organisers don't normally take kindly to flashing your lights on track. They see it as trying to intimidate the others, I believe.

[greyjasper51]

Track day organisers don't normally take kindly to flashing your lights on track. They see it as trying to intimidate the others, I believe.

Dont flash just put dipped beam on...

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[titchster]

Pop up headlights = noticeable amounts of drag, unfortunately.

[Ryan]

Track day organisers don't normally take kindly to flashing your lights on track. They see it as trying to intimidate the others, I believe.

The guys at bands never bollocked me when all the homos in Hondas kept parking their barges on the racing line and I kept flashing them lol.

[greyjasper51]

Pop up headlights = noticeable amounts of drag, unfortunately.

Mx5? Rx7? Tr7? Nsx?

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[Ryan]

Mx5? Rx7? Tr7? Nsx?

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The mx5 in his profile kinda gives it away :homme:

[titchster]

Lad on a track day at Cadwell got bollocked for it, i'd rather not take the chance, lol.


And yeah, MXgay.

[greyjasper51]

The mx5 in his profile kinda gives it away :homme:

Cant see that im on my fone....

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[greyjasper51]

Lad on a track day at Cadwell got bollocked for it, i'd rather not take the chance, lol.


And yeah, MXgay.

I thought cadwell was more relaxed as its part of msv and the other msv's are relaxed about it... Brands especially...

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[Mochachino]

The guys at bands never bollocked me when all the homos in Hondas kept parking their barges on the racing line and I kept flashing them lol.


Fucking Honda drivers.

[Ryan]

Lad on a track day at Cadwell got bollocked for it, i'd rather not take the chance, lol.


And yeah, MXgay.

Was it a javelin run day? If so would explain a lot.

Fucking cowboys, bollock people for minor things but let their resident morons drive like cocks without doing anything.

[greyjasper51]

Was it a javelin run day? If so would explain a lot.

Fucking cowboys, bollock people for minor things but let their resident morons drive like cocks without doing anything.

Youll find most officials get bullied at home and have their bit of power at the track and so they use it to its full potential... Not all tho.... but some are

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[titchster]

Think it was, actually.

[Ryan]

Youll find most officials get bullied at home and have their bit of power at the track and so they use it to its full potential... Not all tho.... but some are

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Horeshit.

Marshals generally are working without pay and do it for the love and your safety.

The only track day I've ever done where there were powers that be talking all kinds of bollocks was the javelin day. The driving standards were also terrible (most seemed regulars) which is why I won't book with them again.

A friend had a ding with the wall (panel damage) we repaired the car and had it checked out by the people of the circuit, they passed the car as safe. Javelin wanted to be complete cocks about it despite the fact they kept allowing people driving dangerously back out on track time and time again.

[greyjasper51]

Marshals are good race officials like clerk of the. Course are and chief scruitineer, marshals always help and put themselves out to help officials do fuck all

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[AndySAXO]

Javalin track days are ran bad, and marshell badly. I don't think they know much about track driving themselves beern twice now both times they where badly ran by there marshells.

But others I have used have been fine, heard a lot about javalin track days, but me off going with them again.

[piranhamatt]

I wish I could get a +20bhp gain from an air filter and exhaust as I'd be running 140bhp..

[Ryanoo]

Ok im going to copy and paste something. Pushed me that far my ctrl and V button is going to be pressed now omg.

"The VTS has a longer rev range so it doesnt matter that the peak figures are higher up, infact its a good thing, as this is where you should be anyway if your driving properly in an NA car.

VTRs run out of grunt high up. So if you drop it down a gear, say from 3rd to 2nd for a tightish corner, in a vts youve got a much bigger range to drop into in the first place, and all the powers there. Then you change gear, and your up in the powerband again in the next gear at say 5.5k all the way to 7.2k.

Change down to the top end of the rev range in a VTR and its powerband tails off as you get near the top so you need to change up before the redline to get the best out of it.

The longer revrange also allows you to be much more flexible in the twisties. Because of the nature of the strong higher powerband you can whack it in at high revs and hold it there all the way round a long bend, then change up as you throw yourself off the corner. It also means you can whack it down into lower gears earlier in order to gearbrake before doing that. Where the VTR wouldnt be as happy to do that as theres less power there and theres not as many RPM to play with.

Hence why VTS's are much better all round. And ehy 16vs isnt just about the extra 20 odd brake. I wasnt mentioning handling when I said it was faster round the corners .

If you think this is bull, take a look at any high powered sports NA engined cars. The S2K for example. Theres fuck all power until later on in the rev range. Shit for pick up and go power, perfect for constant power through the corners with well timed gear choices.

Yes you can raise the rev limit, but that doesnt really solve the problem. Even matched with a lairy cam, your powerbands still going to be much smaller than the VTS, and to get the best power will also be a fair bit smaller than the OEM setup.

It will still be great to drive down the B roads and twisty tracks, but youll have to try really hard to stay in the powerband all the time. This might take the fun out a bit. And due to the powerband being smaller as mentioned, it wont be as able as a VTS. Youll constantly have to keep the engine screaming to get the best out of it.

Some people really like that kinda setup. Its more challenging to drive fast in many aspects. But in reality if the 16v is a better performer, is more flexible both to modify for performance purposes and independantly to drive fast, it is the better choice. Even in a reasonably high end VTS, youve still got a reasonable amount of revs to play with, especially when the limits put upto the 7.8k mark.

So basically, if you tune the VTR to a decent NA spec, it will be highly strung and very peaky. If your gonna be happy with that, then go for it. If your having doubts now, dont bother imo as by the time your done and all the moneys been spent, everytime you drive it youll wonder what you could have had. Which is what you see over and over again with people really into their tuning, spending money on the same parts to different specs over and over"

This isn't bullshit. I've noticed this in my VTR, I rarely go above 5.5k revs as it seems to trail off acceleration/goes slow, I find the best pull is around 3.5k. When in 4th gear at around 5.5Krpm it barely pulls at all, tis only when I nip into 5th that it starts pulling again lol.

[blackie_2k5]

My vtr pulls to the red line :homme:
Heh heh heh

[Bob87]

Yes, same