Furio/westy engines

[MiniGibbo]

Are they all the same, ie all have the same ally 1400 bottom ends or did they differ like the 1600 8v's..?

Im looking at putting my s1 106 rallye head onto a ally 1400 bottom end if my rings are shot.

[jayline]

to my knowledge i "think" they are all the same mate, no difference in them at all tbh! that would be a good setup that your planning aswell!

[MiniGibbo]

Yeah I've just been looking at one on eBay and the dipstick and oil filter are in different places, iirc you can move those though so I'd hope to fit my Rallye items..?

[jayline]

im pretty sure your rallye items will fit mate! i have a furio lump and im looking into the rallye head and so on!

[blackie_2k5]

Keep things easy and look for a weary or early furio lump mate, from a single

Or quicky lump, or Saxo auto

[MiniGibbo]

Does that make a difference if I'm only going to use the bottom end..?

Imguessing I can just put all my stuff and look onto it..?

[blackie_2k5]

You could yeah, but the dipsticks on the newer engines run are bigger I think, I tried to fit one to my engine and it would need the block drilling out iirc??

Someone will know

[Sophia_Bush]

the pistons and rods are flat top in the 1.4 alloy blocks so c/r is not sas high but the difference is negligible. The 1.4 bottom end with the 1.3 top end stuff Matt should see you around 115-125bhp and better torque with the usual breathing mods did this few years back but using xsi stuff made 109bhp.

[jayline]

if thats true sophia_bush im on that straight away!

[MiniGibbo]

Why does 100cc add so much bhp, ESP with less comp ratio..?

[Mochachino]

if thats true sophia_bush im on that straight away!

Yeh its true.

This used to be like the normal sort of thing to do a few years ago.

Take a look at Chris' rallye engined westocast. Cant remember his username now though, was a few years ago. Was quite a good build.

[jayline]

Yeh its true.

This used to be like the normal sort of thing to do a few years ago.

Take a look at Chris' rallye engined westocast. Cant remember his username now though, was a few years ago. Was quite a good build.

im guessing to do it you need the 1.3 head, inlet, throttle bodie, loom, ecu? anything else?

[Mochachino]

Thats basically it.

Westcoast bottom end and an XSI head is meant to be a better combo aswell.

S1 head on the XSI bottom end is the common one.

[jayline]

Thats basically it.

Westcoast bottom end and an XSI head is meant to be a better combo aswell.

S1 head on the XSI bottom end is the common one.

well i have a furio bottom end so what would be best? also if this is done would my car see 120bhp? as ive been told otherwise on my thread! sorry gibbo for the thread hijack (always wanted to do what you are doing)

[MiniGibbo]

I'm dubious tbh.. Id of guessed 105, maybe 110 with breathing mods but 120.... Dunno :S

[MiniGibbo]

Thats basically it.

Westcoast bottom end and an XSI head is meant to be a better combo aswell.

S1 head on the XSI bottom end is the common one.

Xsi dosent rev as high as the Rallye, why's the head better..?

[jayline]

tbh i didnt think that it would get them figures! but if there true your 205 would be quite rapid id imagine!

[blackie_2k5]

It runs the same cam profile or very similar

But the port work is a lot better, the 1.3 head is really poorly machined/shaped in standard form

I was quite shocked when I put it next to a standard vtr head

[MiniGibbo]

Thats surprising as the Rallye head is meant to be really good (in theory, getting 100hp out of a 1300) lol..

[Mochachino]

well i have a furio bottom end so what would be best? also if this is done would my car see 120bhp? as ive been told otherwise on my thread! sorry gibbo for the thread hijack (always wanted to do what you are doing)

Not sure if you would see them figures, I cant remember now

Xsi dosent rev as high as the Rallye, why's the head better..?

Cant remember what the XSI or Rallye Rev up to now, im sure theyre both the same aint they?

Which head being better? Rallye head is better, has a higher lift cam as standard for one. I cant remember the ins and outs of them now, but it will all be found with a search :y:

[jayline]

It runs the same cam profile or very similar

But the port work is a lot better, the 1.3 head is really poorly machined/shaped in standard form

I was quite shocked when I put it next to a standard vtr head

did you have to do any head work to the 1.3 to get it better or did you leave it?

[blackie_2k5]

It's the cam profile and the fact the valves are the same size as vtr etc

I done lots of reading about the best head to use on my turbo engine, but xsi heads are quite hard to find now

[jayline]

It's the cam profile and the fact the valves are the same size as vtr etc

That's same as the xsi but doesn't rev as high, I done lots of reading about the best head to use on my turbo engine, but xsi heads are quite hard to find now

what would you say was the best head for for a n/a 1.4?

[MiniGibbo]

Surely for direct fit and the rev ability of 7250 it's got to be the s1 Rallye head.

[blackie_2k5]

1.3 or 1.4 xsi, but both are becoming harder to find

The xsi being the better of the two from what I've read, or even a blacktop vtr head but then you'd have to buy a decent cam to put in

Best to do some reading if using a 1.4 engine and check piston type to make sure your mot going to get valve/piston contact, as I've never really looked at them, but should be ok

[Mochachino]

Easiest one going by availability is the blacktop head on silvertops bottom end. Put a rallye inlet on it, cam that, s1 rallye gearbox or 1.4 xsi gearbox and I think the stock hatch cars put in VTS injectors too, must have a different spray pattern?

[mlawlan69]

finding this interesting reading myself! so its just a straight swap for a different head, I'm guessing the biggest ball ache would be the fact that 3 plug furio bottom would have different plugs for the sensors? or are even those interchangeable?

[MiniGibbo]

Does that go for me using the Rallye head as well.. That's the reason of this thread to see which one I need to be able to go with my head...

[MiniGibbo]

finding this interesting reading myself! so its just a straight swap for a different head, I'm guessing the biggest ball ache would be the fact that 3 plug furio bottom would have different plugs for the sensors? or are even those interchangeable?

Are there any plugs on the bottom end..?

[blackie_2k5]

Your bottom end only has a few sensors on it

Knock sensor which will be the same
Oil pressure light switch which may be diff should be straight forward to sort or just don't run one
And crank sensor which will be the same I think, if not could change it

Can't think off any more at the min

[blackie_2k5]

Does that go for me using the Rallye head as well.. That's the reason of this thread to see which one I need to be able to go with my head...

Does what? The pistons? It does but I don't think it will ne an issue mate, I've just not looked into i

Pretty sure unless your going for a wilder cam youll be fine, but someone else should confirm

If I was you I'd just look for a single plug engine and all will be fine

[Mochachino]

Have a read of this, he had a successful engine with the same idea of what you have and he was very knowledgeable with it all.

Search his posts as well and you will find a wealth of info. If you need to know any more then hopefully he can remember lol, I starting to forget alot of saxo stuff now :(

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213293

[jayline]

Have a read of this, he had a successful engine with the same idea of what you have and he was very knowledgeable with it all.

Search his posts as well and you will find a wealth of info. If you need to know any more then hopefully he can remember lol, I starting to forget alot of saxo stuff now :(

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213293

cheers for that link, now for a big read up :) well i've got the single plug furio lump just need the rallye bits lol!

[MiniGibbo]

cheers for that link, now for a big read up :) well i've got the single plug furio lump just need the rallye bits lol!

Sell me your furio engine and put the money towards a 16v, it's pointless tuning a 8v ;)

[jayline]

Sell me your furio engine and put the money towards a 16v, it's pointless tuning a 8v ;)

haha ive just installed the engine lol! sell me your rallye gear and use the money on a 16v, its pointless tuning a 8v ;)

EDIT: in that link above i just saw that he sold that car for £1250, someone got a bargain!

[jayline]

gibbo did you get the link i sent ya, might help ya out a bit!

[MiniGibbo]

I did thanks.

[jayline]

could you use a 1.1 bottom end and get similar gains?

[MiniGibbo]

could you use a 1.1 bottom end and get similar gains?

I doubt it as its less cc. May as well get another 1300 bottom end.

I "might have" found my self a 1400 xsi bottom end with domed pistons..

[jayline]

I doubt it as its less cc. May as well get another 1300 bottom end.

I "might have" found my self a 1400 xsi bottom end with domed pistons..

fair play if you want a 1.1 single plug engine to try with your setup i have one for £20 here lol! oh very nice, ive found myself an xsi box and a s1 box that are ok priced :) just need the rallye head and other parts lol!

[jayline]

would a 1.4 xsi head and furio bottom end be a good combo as ive found the head inlet loom and ecu for sale cheap?

[MiniGibbo]

I'm being told the 1400 xsi blocks are cast iron..?

[jayline]

I'm being told the 1400 xsi blocks are cast iron..?

i never knew that? dont the xsi lumps push 100bhp standard?

[Gandi699]

Yes the xsi lumps are cast. The 1.3 rallye made just over 100 bhp with an alloy block, cant see why using the 1400 alloy block would be too much of a problem providing you use the right gasket

[jayline]

Yes the xsi lumps are cast. The 1.3 rallye made just over 100 bhp with an alloy block, cant see why using the 1400 alloy block would be too much of a problem providing you use the right gasket

so would you say this setup would work: 1.4 xsi head with rallye inlet and cam on a furio bottom end? would this see 100bhp?

[Gandi699]

It should work yes, difficult to say what figures it'll make though due to ECU and map differences etc from the xsi to furio. Not sure if the 1400 xsi had higher compression domed pistons either, I dont think it did - also its Z cam is slightly different to the rallye J cam but not by much

[jayline]

It should work yes, difficult to say what figures it'll make though due to ECU and map differences etc from the xsi to furio. Not sure if the 1400 xsi had higher compression domed pistons either, I dont think it did - also its Z cam is slightly different to the rallye J cam but not by much

hmmm, i'd get both ecu's xsi one and rallye! and try them both! i thought of the "j" cam as ive heard it's a really good cam to use if your on a budget!

[Gandi699]

you'll need the rallye/xsi looms and mods to you body loom to accept it

[jayline]

you'll need the rallye/xsi looms and mods to you body loom to accept it

so get both looms aswell!

[Gandi699]

let me know how you get on with the splicing, I want to do it to mine in future but I cant find an s2 loom and ecu for non-silly money

[jayline]

let me know how you get on with the splicing, I want to do it to mine in future but I cant find an s2 loom and ecu for non-silly money

will do matey, got raise funds first, might do the xsi head on furio bottom end with rallye cam and inlet using the xsi loom and ecu!

[Gandi699]

is it going in saxo?

[jayline]

is it going in saxo?

yh my mark 1 flat arch! go on my progress thread thats at the bottom of this and we can talk on there as this is gibbos thread lol!

[MiniGibbo]

So the kid is correct saying his 1400 xsi block is cast.... thats a pain. means i cant have domed pistons if i want to keep an ally bottom end.

So the question is domed pistons and ally block

or

ally block and flat pistons..

[jayline]

why dont you build a furio bottom end with rallye parts i.e pistons etc... would this work? as on ebay someone has basically stripped a whole rallye engine down! so parts are at a good price?

[MiniGibbo]

That was my original plan but if i can get a bottom end with domed pistons it would be "better"..

Its currently however confusing the shit out of me lol.

[jayline]

That was my original plan but if i can get a bottom end with domed pistons it would be "better"..

Its currently however confusing the shit out of me lol.

same mate, i dont have the best knowledge of engine so i dont know what are good matches and so on.... what engines have domed pistons as im always online atm looking for work and bargains to buy so i can message you if i find any that you might want!

[MiniGibbo]

Sandy replied to my thread on drivers, I'll copy it over as its as you'd expect detailed and bound to be gospel lol..



"It's more like 23kg between alloy and iron 8v TU. XSi 1.4 and AX GTI blocks are iron. The 16v TU is barely any different in weight to alloy XU 16v and the 1800 16v EW is slightly lighter than 16v TU."

[MiniGibbo]

Am i right in thinking my rallye ccc is 1360..

I was looking on ebay at some engines and they state the furio/quicky engines as 1360, surely thatll give me no gain..?

[jayline]

nope they are a 1294cc :)

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/peugeot/106/hatchback-1991/8572/

[MiniGibbo]

I could of not been a lazy fuck and found that my self LOL..

[jayline]

I could of not been a lazy fuck and found that my self LOL..

haha, i always wondered if they were more cc than they were classed at so had a butchers lol

[blackie_2k5]

gibbo id stick with an ally block..see how you get on..the weight diff will be notable in a car this light

you could skim the head a little to raise the CR..or run a smaller gasket..which will do as domed pistons would

BUT you must check with someone like sandy (or read up) on how much you can go if fitting a rallye head/cam..as you may get valve/piston contact if you go too much

[MiniGibbo]

I'm tempted by his iron xsi block if I'm honest for the domed pistons.

Another two lads have offered me 205 xs engines which I'm unsure are ally or iron..?

Edit: I've always been against skimming heads but that's a good idea dude.

[blackie_2k5]

skimming heads is good ;)

dont the 3 plug R engines run domed pistons as well? (not sure as i didnt think they did..but sure i read that not long back)

would be able to pick a full low mile engine up for peanuts if you wanna go cast block

[MiniGibbo]

Yeah I read (probably the same thread as you lol) that late vtr's have domed pistons but I'm unsure if the bottom end would be plug and play loom wise..

[blackie_2k5]

as posted on the other page mate

there is only a few sensors on the block..one is oil pressure switch..you can use your own
other is knock sensor..they were all the same..but could use your own
and crank sensor..were all same irrc..but can used your own..

thats the only 3 i can think of

rest are on head and inlet/tb/box

[MiniGibbo]

205 xs full engine with manifolds, gear box, shafts and all extras with under 100k

£50.


Bazinga.

[jayline]

205 xs full engine with manifolds, gear box, shafts and all extras with under 100k

£50.


Bazinga.

what a steal!

[blackie_2k5]

may aswell at that price tbh

[MiniGibbo]

It's a 1360 ally block and I can weigh the rest I don't use in.. :A: