which engine have i bought?

[vtr91]

ive decided to do a turbo conversion on my saxo vtr, but basically, ive bought another 8v engine so i could rebuild it and get all the bits i need until its nearly time to drop in. But im unsure as to what engine i have bought. i know its the later roller rocker engine, (it turned up today) but the oil fitler has a screw on type other than the paper element type. I dont know if whoever had it before went to the mk1 setup or i have a different engine to whats in my vtr at the moment. How do i find out if it is the same as the one i currently have, as i dont want to find out i need a different wiring harness..

its my fault really for not checking all these things out before i bought it.
thanks

[Gandi699]

Are the inlet ports grouped in 2s or spaced out equally?

[burgin2011]

weres the lambda ? in the middle of the exhaust manifold if so its the 98bhp mk2 aslo has a cat on the manifold ? and also the dipstick if its on the edge of the manifold on the right side it's the 90bhp model mk1 underfloor cat , with labda on the down pipe , easyest way imo , others will have different sayings

[vtr91]

i think its grouped in 2s, the engine is at work so i cant check atm and the pics i took earlier are a bit blurry :/

[vtr91]

weres the lambda ? in the middle of the exhaust manifold if so its the 98bhp mk2 aslo has a cat on the manifold ? and also the dipstick if its on the edge of the manifold on the right side it's the 90bhp model mk1 underfloor cat , with labda on the down pipe , easyest way imo , others will have different sayings


i know its a later engine as it has the roller rockers, just dont know if i have bought an engine that had a 1 plug ECU, or if it actually matters?

[vtr91]

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/jon_boi_91/20121023_140951_zps38f97ee1.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/jon_boi_91/20121023_141008_zps859b6360.jpg

[burgin2011]

i know its a later engine as it has the roller rockers, just dont know if i have bought an engine that had a 1 plug ECU, or if it actually matters?

if im right 1 plugs are all 90bhp 3 plug 98bhp ,thats deffo a mk1 90bhp engine 100% you can tell were the dipstick is

[vtr91]

it defo 100% has roller rockers, i removed the head just before i left work tho :/

[burgin2011]

yeah 1998 and 1999 90bhp are roller rockers i think its 2000 were the 98bhp comes in and still uses the roller rockers , ive got a 1998 vtr 90bhp and thats roller rockers. i think just the black tops dont have roller rockers , there the earliest , like 1997 ,

[blackie_2k5]

Looks like its a 90bhp silvertop
Roller rocker engine

If you want further confirmation, take a close up of the front of the block and post it here

Edit- they were also 2000 model, 3 plugs started late 2000/2001

Did you buy it off eBay?

[vtr91]

bollocks! just my luck haha...
when i take the close up, what am i looking to take a picture of?

[burgin2011]

[QUOTE=blackie_2k5;6132223]

Edit- they were also 2000 model, 3 plugs started late 2000/2001

i got you i thought it was the start of 2000 were the 3 plugs came in

[vtr91]

yeah, it was from ebay..

[vtr91]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Saxo-VTR-1-6-8v-engine-97-03-NFT-only-62k-recent-service-inc-manifolds-/271081483819?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D2949697987583319251%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D280964669213%26

[blackie_2k5]

Mainly just around and above the metal oil filter

Get a decent close up of the front of block

It will 100% confirm it.. But I'm 95% sure it's a 90bhp silver top anyway...

Always possible it a 3 plug block that's been modded to fit a single plug set up, it may have had a mk1 dipstick set up fitted... But it's unlikely really

Pic will confirm :)

There is also codes on the block iirc, but I don't know them :p

[burgin2011]

yeah its the mk1 90bhp tell by the throttle body also . it tells you its the 1997 on the description

[blackie_2k5]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Saxo-VTR-1-6-8v-engine-97-03-NFT-only-62k-recent-service-inc-manifolds-/271081483819?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D2949697987583319251%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D280964669213%26

Thought so

I emailed him a while back to tell him it won't fit a car after 2000 without hassle so he should change his listing and got into an argument with him ( he clearly knows best as he's a breaker :/ )

Leave him neg feed back for listing it incorrectly.. That'll Piss him off..

[vtr91]

says 97-03 :)
whats the difference between the early silvertops 90bhp ones and the later ones?

[greyjasper51]

Roller rockers, head porting...

[burgin2011]

8bhp , can not notice the difference in the 2 , i think its the mapping , the cat in the mani the throttlebody and head porting ect.. silly little things tbh , but ebay people dont list things like this if its 1997 model engine it will not fit in a 03 car because the have different looms and ecu 90bhp with single plug and 98bhp with 3 plug you would have to change the loom and ecu .

[vtr91]

Thought so

I emailed him a while back to tell him it won't fit a car after 2000 without hassle so he should change his listing and got into an argument with him ( he clearly knows best as he's a breaker :/ )

Leave him neg feed back for listing it incorrectly.. That'll Piss him off..

its not just that, it took 2 weeks for it to arrive lol.. so much for 48hr courier!
is it worth me sending it back?
or shall i perservere?

[blackie_2k5]

The inlet and tb, most inlet sensors are different, the ex mani is different, the dipstick set up is different, the oil filter is different

The later ones run higher compression pistons the head layout is different

[vtr91]

its the same exhaust mani as whats on mine, with the lambda sensor on top and the cat in the mani..

[blackie_2k5]

its not just that, it took 2 weeks for it to arrive lol.. so much for 48hr courier!
is it worth me sending it back?
or shall i perservere?

If I were you (becuause I know how much of a cock he is..

I'd email him saying your mechanic has tried to put it in your 52 plate car and all I listed above is different so you inlet etc doesn't fit

Tell him you want your money back.. He'll proba just refund you as it'll cost him more to get the engine collected and tell you to keep it

Then just use it for your rebuild ;)

[burgin2011]

[QUOTE=greyjasper51;6132246]Roller rockers

thought all silvertops were roller rockers :/ blacktops non roller rocker might be wrong

[blackie_2k5]

its the same exhaust mani as whats on mine, with the lambda sensor on top and the cat in the mani..

What year is your car?

[greyjasper51]

[QUOTE=greyjasper51;6132246]Roller rockers

thought all silvertops were roller rockers :/ blacktops non roller rocker might be wrong

My bad miss read it, though you were saying between early and later 90bhp

[vtr91]

im a mechanic anyway :) and when he said 48hr delivery and it took 2 weeks, i told him i have a car dead on the ramp until it turns up and made him chase the pallet company.
but now i have a wrong engine

[burgin2011]

[quote=burgin2011;6132254]

My bad miss read it, though you were saying between early and later 90bhp

sorry didn't mean to be a clever shit either :)

[vtr91]

What year is your car?

its a 2003

[burgin2011]

im a mechanic anyway :) and when he said 48hr delivery and it took 2 weeks, i told him i have a car dead on the ramp until it turns up and made him chase the pallet company.
but now i have a wrong engine

why do some breakers always think they no best ? and then after a argument with a customer or like you blackie in the first case they actually realise there wrong , send it back dude !

[burgin2011]

its a 2003

gutted deffo send it back

[vtr91]

why do some breakers always think they no best ? and then after a argument with a customer or like you blackie in the first case they actually realise there wrong , send it back dude !

only thing is tho, is that its going to cost me to send it back to him.. or should i make him pay for it?

[blackie_2k5]

its a 2003

That one shouldn't have the same ex mani as yours then

What was included? Inlet etc as it said on listing it isn't?

[blackie_2k5]

only thing is tho, is that its going to cost me to send it back to him.. or should i make him pay for it?

He's listed it incorrectly

It's on him to pay

[vtr91]

That one shouldn't have the same ex mani as yours then

What was included? Inlet etc as it said on listing it isn't?

pretty much yeah, its got a lambda sensor in the top of the mani.. but has no cat where it had been taken off

[vtr91]

He's listed it incorrectly

It's on him to pay

ill message him and see what he says

[burgin2011]

what your engine you brought has the lambda on the top of mani ? it confuses thing if it has lol

[burgin2011]

ill message him and see what he says

he probably not message you back

[vtr91]

yeah.. the engine i bought, the confusing one, has the same exhaust mani as mine (currently in my car), with a lambda sensor on top of the mani.

[burgin2011]

you sure because on the picture the lambda is on the downpipe , and if its a 97 engine , and got a 98bhp manifold it would of had oil filter conversion , dont quote me on that!

[blackie_2k5]

just logged onto com to better advise :p

dont need close up as can see on com.. 100% a 90bhp silver top 98-00 engine

hes listed it wrongly

if your rebuilding it for turbo..i personally prefer the 90bhp enignes (ill go onto why later on)

but simply..hes in the wrong..it wont fit cars after 2000 without a lot of grief

just email him and tell him youve waited two weeks for a 48 hour delivery with a paying customers car imobile..to be sent an engine that will not fit the car...tell him about he differences listed above..and that its unacceptable

tell him you want a refund or replacement engine dispatched immediatley

then you either get a refund or an engine that matches yours...you may just get a refund and him tell you to keep the engine..in which case you can stiull rebuild it..just find an inlet to match it off here and jobs a good un

[blackie_2k5]

he probably not message you back

he has too..its a business
id advise opening a ebay dispute straight away..itll freeze his money and he'll want it resolved ASAP


yeah.. the engine i bought, the confusing one, has the same exhaust mani as mine (currently in my car), with a lambda sensor on top of the mani.


you sure because on the picture the lambda is on the downpipe , and if its a 97 engine , and got a 98bhp manifold it would of had oil filter conversion , dont quote me on that!

the mani will still fit..probs just placed it on to play dumb in this instance

the oil filter is already the mk1 set up on a mk1 engine ;)

only need to convert 3 plugs oil filter to mk1 when fitting a mk1 manifold to a 3 plug engine :y:

[vtr91]

you sure because on the picture the lambda is on the downpipe , and if its a 97 engine , and got a 98bhp manifold it would of had oil filter conversion , dont quote me on that!

its defo in the manifold lol.. ill take a pic tomorrow :)

[vtr91]

[QUOTE=blackie_2k5;6132299]he has too..its a business
id advise opening a ebay dispute straight away..itll freeze his money and he'll want it resolved ASAP


the only trouble is, it didnt go through ebay, i messaged him asking his best price, and he said £130 delivered, so i asked him to send me an invoice via paypal and payed it that way..
can i still open a dispute?

[blackie_2k5]

yeah mate..just open it as a paypal dispute.. use the link to the sale on ebay as a referance

[blackie_2k5]

go into your paypal history...and post up what the invoice sais exactly under what youve bought

eg

"saxo vtr engine"

[vtr91]

this is the best i can find atm


From:

john davies(swbreakers@yahoo.co.uk)



To:

jonathan aldous (jon.boi_86@live.co.uk)



Amount:

£130.00 GBP



Status:

Paid





This request for money or invoice was paid. See the transaction details for more information.



Date Requested:

8 Oct 2012



Subject:

PayPal money request from john davies for saxo vtr 8v engine



Note:

invoice for 1.6 saxo vtr engine including delivery.

[blackie_2k5]

should be able to use the sale listing you messaged him over as means of proof he sent wrong engine..did you keep the messages on ebay?

as theyll help

[vtr91]

all messages are in my ebay still, and im able to open a dispute over paypal if necessays :)

[blackie_2k5]

just open one anyway mate

it gets his attention and stops him wasting time..you only get a certain amount of time to put a dispute in

[vtr91]

dispute opened :)

[vtr91]

If you want further confirmation, take a close up of the front of the block and post it here

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/jon_boi_91/20121024_104204_zps62b1c1eb.jpg

let the guessing begin !

[blackie_2k5]

90bhp silver top mate :y:

for some reason you have no oil lever sensor though..like three plugs dont

[Gandi699]

90bhp silver top mate :y:

for some reason you have no oil lever sensor though..like three plugs dont

Where does that sensor sit on the block? I dont recall my s2 rallye unit having one either just the pressure sensor

[vtr91]

90bhp silver top mate :y:


well, so be it, this shall be the turbo charged unit! does it matter about the oil level sensor thingy?

also, im guessing the wiring loom is going to be different to my 3plugger?

[blackie_2k5]

Where does that sensor sit on the block? I dont recall my s2 rallye unit having one either just the pressure sensor

big plug on upper left of oil filter opening

and no matey...its a bonus to have but not essential..i had to remove mine anyway

[Gandi699]

I didnt get that one on mine, however it got the sump temperature sensor instead

[blackie_2k5]

vtr or rallye?

all rallyes had oil temp it think?

[vtr91]

what loom will i need for this?

[blackie_2k5]

should be able to use your loom mate

might have 1 or 2 sensors diff on the inlet. and coilpack plug may be different

easy sorted come the time

if you use the head off your current car then itll be no diff

[vtr91]

ill be using the head off the other engine i have just bought, its all been stripped, ive taken the valves out and reground them, just waiting for some uprated valve springs come payday. :)

[chrome233]

The guy who sold you that engine ripped me off too. He even came to my house threatening me after i disputed on paypal!!
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442507