Islam/Mosques In The UK

[GolfJay]

Wondering what everyone's opinion is on this. Are there too many mosques in the UK? Do you think Islam is slowly taking over the UK?

I ask as there is an EDL protest less than 50 meters from work today. They're protesting against the development of a mosque in Lincoln because "Nobody wants it there and Islam won't be allowed to take over"

What's everyone's opinion?

Keep it clean, none racial and try and be intelligent!

[manta]

This can only go well

[GolfJay]

This can only go well

There's an 8 page thread on Edition 38. I fail to see the problem?

Probably should have mentioned in my original post. Police are expecting 500 protestors and a.counter protest of about 200 less than 50 meters from the EDL stand.

Big police presence at the minute. I'll update abit later.

[0rang3peel]

Personally I don't really see a problem, as long as they're not using shit loads of government money to fund them.

Hell on the flip side, they're probably creating construction jobs

[Gabbastard]

What a bizarre question. For starters, how many mosques are there in the UK? What number is "too many" and why would that be deemed too many?

As for the "is islam taking over", according to numbers its the fastest growing religion so i suppose it is. Or do you mean how long until sharia law and/or an islamic government?

[stevo67]

Well we are a western country,where christianity used to be the main faith & its sickening where I live to see old churches taken over by muslims.So yes there are too many mosques in this country.The fabric of what is british & its tranditions/culture is being eroded.

[manta]

Cant wait for viper to get here and call people uneducated and ignorant.

But then again Viper doesn't live in a shithole surrounded by mosques and muslim rape gangs.

[GolfJay]

Small update. This is my loading bay now...

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g439/L1QuiD/IMG_20130608_115338_zps56c62f38.jpg

[12u55]

Near me, just 10 years ago there used to be 6 churches, all of which have now gone minus one, the others HAVE been turned into mosques.
An Old real skin head pub has since closed too, that closed. Muslims brought it, changed the exterior of it, actually put minorettes on it, which really creamed off a lot of the locals.
I mean, i'm all for peaceful muslims, there are a lot out there, I just don't like the cocky arab lifestyle brats that are my age, wear their wealth upon their wrist, drives daddys merc and is just general ignorant for British laws and ways.

[Carlvtr88]

Wondering what everyone's opinion is on this. Are there too many mosques in the UK? Do you think Islam is slowly taking over the UK?

I ask as there is an EDL protest less than 50 meters from work today. They're protesting against the development of a mosque in Lincoln because "Nobody wants it there and Islam won't be allowed to take over"

What's everyone's opinion?

Keep it clean, none racial and try and be intelligent!

I'm out. I don't think I can stay clean on this one.

[Gabbastard]

Im not being a Viper, but I dont understand why churches being bought/having their leases taken over by muslims is a problem? If its anything like my area no-one goes to church anymore, so the church is unused and closes. Should it just sit abandoned cos christians used to go to it?

[Carlvtr88]

Cant wait for viper to get here and call people uneducated and ignorant.

But then again Viper doesn't live in a shithole surrounded by mosques and muslim rape gangs.

Most people who are ignorant of the failings of multiculturalism tend to live away from it all. Not aiming this at Viper BTW. Just saying.

I'm sure the Ministers think it's all going swimmingly and Mosques are all for good...... There was one in Birmingham not long ago that was actively promoting hate against the white man.
I'd love to see them come down to Small Heath and tell me its diverse. It's not. They move in and setup mosques, English peeps move out.

There's loads of people who are quick to adopt the moral high-ground towards this subject, but if a religious immigrant and his large family moved in either side with the " I can do what I want " attitude, that often comes too, setup loads of mosques and turned the area into a general shithole, Would they be happy to remain there ? I think peoples actions say it all.

Im out.

[0rang3peel]

Im not being a Viper, but I dont understand why churches being bought/having their leases taken over by muslims is a problem? If its anything like my area no-one goes to church anymore, so the church is unused and closes. Should it just sit abandoned cos christians used to go to it?

Exactly the same, I'm in Swansea we have a road with about 26 Indians in it, various mosques etc

Nobody goes to church anyway, the majority of christians/catholics have realised what a shit pit religion is and abandoned that long ago in a few generations finding a catholic/christian church will involve travelling miles.

If their religion is flourishing then fair enough they can take the churches, because soon nobody will be in them!

[12u55]

Im not being a Viper, but I dont understand why churches being bought/having their leases taken over by muslims is a problem? If its anything like my area no-one goes to church anymore, so the church is unused and closes. Should it just sit abandoned cos christians used to go to it?

It's not nessecarily a bad thing, It's just that i'd rather it be turned into a wine bar, or cheap housing which this country needs for people like me to move into...

[welshpug]

The EDL tried to march in Cardiff, what utter thick bastards they must be, did they not do GCSE geography?

Nobody turned up for that btw.

There are about a dozen mosques in Cardiff at the very least, personally it doesn't bother me whatsoever, they cause no issues, they cook damn good food!

[Stissy]

this thread, no good will come of this jay haha.

[McGuire86]

Exactly the same, I'm in Swansea we have a road with about 26 Indians in it, various mosques etc

Nobody goes to church anyway, the majority of christians/catholics have realised what a shit pit religion is and abandoned that long ago in a few generations finding a catholic/christian church will involve travelling miles.

If their religion is flourishing then fair enough they can take the churches, because soon nobody will be in them!

You're abit of a cock aren't you. You defend Islam but are so quick to mock another religion, if Islam doesn't bother you then why does Christianity ? If you're going to respect one then why not the other ?

[Gabbastard]

You're abit of a cock aren't you. You defend Islam but are so quick to mock another religion, if Islam doesn't bother you then why does Christianity ? If you're going to respect one then why not the other ?

Christians dont cook tasty food?

I think youve read a bit too much into his comment tbh.

[devilsadvocate]

Apart from the average EDL member having an IQ of about 10, does anybody seriously give a shit about them building more mosques.

If so, ask yourself why do you give a shit?
What difference will it make to your life?

I get up in the morning, go to work and then come home at the end of the day. If 20 Mosques were built where I live, what difference would that make to me. There are 3 churches on my way to work, should be be concerned if they decided to build another one? Well no, what difference does it make?

Most of the fucktard EDL members are just using things like this as something to blame for the fact they are not good enough to get a job. They are the sort of people who turn up to an interview in jeans and trainers and think the whole world is against them because they didn't get a job.

You leave school at 16 with no qualifications and you dress like a chav, do you really expect to get a job as the CEO of Citibank? People live in a dream world and think they deserve better all the time.

Build 1000 Mosques, I literally couldn't give a shit.
I will still get up in the morning and go to work and it will have no impact on my life.

Perhaps if the UK stopped trying to police the world, things would be a lot calmer than they are now. I think people fail to realise the things the 'British Empire' have done over the years yet they are quite happy to bash every other Country.

[welshpug]

yeap, I think you just smashed the nail right through the tree

[turbomad]

Ha ha ha ^^^^^^

[Viper]

I love how I got mentioned.

I agree with everything that Gabbastard has said. How do you quantify 'too many'? No, I don't think there are too many.

This just goes straight back to the fact people can't understand the difference between a Muslim and an extremist Muslim.


An Old real skin head pub has since closed too, that closed. Muslims brought it, changed the exterior of it, actually put minorettes on it, which really creamed off a lot of the locals.

Where did they bring it from?

Well we are a western country,where christianity used to be the main faith & its sickening where I live to see old churches taken over by muslims.So yes there are too many mosques in this country.The fabric of what is british & its tranditions/culture is being eroded.

I'm intrigued. How did they take over the Church? Did they attack it over a couple of days and kill everyone inside or did they buy a disused building?

[turbomad]

That was aimed at gabbabastard

[0rang3peel]

You're abit of a cock aren't you. You defend Islam but are so quick to mock another religion, if Islam doesn't bother you then why does Christianity ? If you're going to respect one then why not the other ?

Nothing about any form of religion bothers me in the slightest? what gave you that impression from my post?

Congratulations you're a religious catholic, the fact remains religion is on the down in this country (specially catholic/christian) and if only a few people attend the church, the churches will close.

[Bedford126]

Mosque got built near my best mates house a huge one that is the size of 2 football pitches. The land was refused permission for a private sports center but yet given for a huge mosque with towers and domes that quite honestly are a eye sore. The fact that it was built doesn't bother the locals, its the fact that they go to prayer at all times of nights in their cars revving and acting like fools all the time when the none muslims are trying to sleep.

[stevo67]

I love how I got mentioned.

I agree with everything that Gabbastard has said. How do you quantify 'too many'? No, I don't think there are too many.

This just goes straight back to the fact people can't understand the difference between a Muslim and an extremist Muslim.



Where did they bring it from?



I'm intrigued. How did they take over the Church? Did they attack it over a couple of days and kill everyone inside or did they buy a disused building?

I`m not even going to taken time to give a proper reply to this,except to say that your a prime example of a public schoolboy.Removed from the real world
with no idea.

[blackie_2k5]

Rent boy*

i wanted to join in..

[Davyy]

I don't mind mosques.. one or two blah blah. But when there is a lot it is annoying, mainly because it just doesn't feel like Britain. Call me ignorant but the majority religion is Christian I assume, because England is England, and when that starts to change it pisses me off.

The people who call others ignorant, uneducated etc are normally the ones with a silver spoon and are more ignorant than others.. more often than not.

[blackie_2k5]

I don't mind mosques.. one or two blah blah. But when there is a lot it is annoying, mainly because it just doesn't feel like Britain. Call me ignorant but the majority religion is Christian I assume, because England is England, and when that starts to change it pisses me off.

youre ignorant :y:

The people who call others ignorant, uneducated etc are normally the ones with a silver spoon and are more ignorant than others.. more often than not.

Ill call them bell ends :y:

[Viper]

I`m not even going to taken time to give a proper reply to this,except to say that your a prime example of a public schoolboy.Removed from the real world
with no idea.

You wouldn't be able to put together a proper reply anyway.

[Nates-VTR]

There's a huge Muslim centre going into my area very soon it's estimated funding is €40m some Muslim is paying for it ofcourse, contains 2 schools, a crèche, mosque and leisure centre, think its going to cater for close to 10k Muslims not sure exactly, people in the area are kicking up a fuss saying they where not informed of it when purchasing their houses etc.. Personally I couldn't give a rats, the only way it could possibly effect me is by traffic although the road layouts in the area already cause that anyway.. I don't really see the problem.. They've also agreed to only play the music mosques play within the boundaries of the centre.

[GolfJay]

Update on the demonstration outside us.

About 300 turned up. All peaceful until they were move on. All stores on the High Street told to close their doors.

That's us up to now.

[stevo67]

You wouldn't be able to put together a proper reply anyway.

Coming from the sax-p bellend who knowone likes anyway confine your comments to being the head prefect & i`ll stick to what I know best,thats talking about cars something else you`ve no idea about.:homme::homme::homme:

[Viper]

Coming from the sax-p bellend who knowone likes anyway confine your comments to being the head prefect & i`ll stick to what I know best,thats talking about cars something else you`ve no idea about.:homme::homme::homme:

Thank you for proving my point.

[stevo67]

Thank you for proving my point.

Please elaborate,its easy for you to act hard & be a little keyboard warrior.In reality your probably quite socially inept, head full of mumbo jumbo.

That is all.

[Bedford126]

Please elaborate,its easy for you to act hard & be a little keyboard warrior.In reality your probably quite socially inept, head full of mumbo jumbo.

That is all.

That writes his nissan off because he is such a epic bellend and cant drive for shit.

[Hazmanscoop]

I have an idea.

Why don't we just swap countries? All white people move over to there and take everything with us... Money, education, western law etc

They can live here in a shithole with rain, debt, terrible roads etc

[Bedford126]

I have an idea.

Why don't we just swap countries? All white people move over to there and take everything with us... Money, education, western law etc

They can live here in a shithole with rain, debt, terrible roads etc

Have you not seen where they come from?

I been over there working and outside the big city's most people shit in a bush.

Would be nothing wrong with this country if most the Muslims did as they are told by the Qu'ran and respect the land they live in and abide by the lands rule.

[GolfJay]

Well, everything is over.

Favourite moment of the day was hearing the chant "Allah is a pheado, LA LA LA LA LA"

[Hazmanscoop]

Haha fair enough Bedford.

I know they haven't got such a nice country. But the idea of sun all the time.

Also where i used to live, I'd rather find shit in a bush than some smacked up council house nonce.

[Bedford126]

Well, everything is over.

Favourite moment of the day was hearing the chant "Allah is a pheado, LA LA LA LA LA"

Best thing i ever seen was Bradford city fans singing this until they realized what they were singing.

[stevo67]

That writes his nissan off because he is such a epic bellend and cant drive for shit.

Ha ha & says he`s too good to crash nice one mate.:drink:

[Mochachino]

I suppose what people are actually trying to say is that they dont oppose any religeon or faith. They dont detest their way of life or beleifs. They dont mind other religeons coming into the UK.

Im sure many people have heard the phrase "a home from home". What is the definition of this to you? My definition of this may be different to other peoples. A country such as Spain is a good example where there are lot of expat brits over there. Alot of them may call certain areas 'a home from home' maybe because there are shops selling english products and english restaurants and cafes, fast food outlets, English bars, english gyms and other such specific english ammenities etc. Its a home from home because its all english and they have the ability to live as though they are in England, the option to pay in sterlin or euro in stores and go to english speaking places. Just different weather and they drive on the wrong side of the road lol.

Now, we already have areas which are classed as ghettos...not in a disrespectfull way, but just using the word ghetto for its definition where an area is largly populated by a certain nationality. These nationalities say for example Polish make that area a home from home with everything I have just described for english in spain. The English that live in the Polish ghetto have to travel further to go to their 'home lands shops such as Asda, Marks and Spencer. If a large area is gradually inhabited by one certain race, that area will become a home from home for Polish. Its no longer the home for an old English person.

So now say Nottingham, Lincoln, Leicester become a home from home for one certain nationality, how long before other areas are also going to become part of this? England will just become one big city. Certain cities as a ghetto of a nationality. English in Cambridge, Polish in Lincoln, Russian Fed in Lincolnshire, Islam over there, Christian there, Catholics there. But then what if the entire country becomes a home from home for one certain nationality.

Lets me honest, an old english person isnt going to want to be a minority in their area because another nationality starts to inhabit and become the majority. Why would an old English person, or any English person want to live in an area where they dont sell their own food or clothing and have nothing around them that they would call home or homely? Its not THAT bad yet. Although ceriain areas are ghettos it doesnt take too far to travel to an area for your own food etc, but its still the fact they have to travel, and the fact its only going to continue to develop in that way.

What someone said about all english going to another country and swapping actually makes sense.

None of my post has been racist, its just a view of whats happening and an understanding of how an old english person would view things. You might notice ALOT of old people are racist and dont like any foreigner, is it any wonder, an older person would tend to find it harder to intrigrate with other nationalities especially being brought up with only their own nationality in the old days.

[stevo67]

The above statement is exactly how I feel.

[mhdurrani]

Personally I don't really see a problem, as long as they're not using shit loads of government money to fund them.

Hell on the flip side, they're probably creating construction jobs

Never thought of that good answer :clapping:

[Mochachino]

I suppose Islam and Mosques are the easiest things to pick up on, a mosque doesnt really fit in with english architecture so you will obviously notice it more.

Islamic followers are tend to be alot more religeous that what a christian is and they seem to practice a whole lot more than what a practising christian does. I suppose this religeon is going to naturally form a ghetto more so than any other nationality because of their strong religous beleifs and practising it so regular. Old and young, they cant drive so need to live near to their mosque, so I guess this is where the ghetto forms, all sticking together in one area so they can get to the mosque easier. Maybe not in a deliberate intention to take over an area as some have put it.

Im sure if christians were more commonly practising christians they would all live around the church. Infact take a look at villages, they all revolve around a church. Theyre not classed as ghettos because that just seems to be the typical race of England, but i suppose on the whole all villages are ghettos.

If a stereotypical Muslim didnt look so stereotypical and looked english and mosques looked like a library how many of us would notice the ghettos? Not mentioning the shops, that would be abit of a giveaway, but that ties in with my previous post.

[Mochachino]

The above statement is exactly how I feel.

lol there you go your none racist view :y:

Its just how us humans are, we have our families and we usually stick together, we have our groups of mates. Old england was a very close knitt community, villages full of inbreds lol, its just how native english people are. Here we are ALL the way down the generations and we are still thinking the same, not wanting to allow others to infiltrate our area. Maybe if everyone was more open minded and allowing then there would be no ghettos and rather than religeons sticking in one area we would all be multicultural as the government think england is and want to protray the country as.

We are a possessive breed of animal, a pack animal. What about Scotland vs England years ago? Im sure we hated each other all them years ago. Now we accept each other (a wee bit more).

[Gabbastard]

What about Scotland vs England years ago? Im sure we hated each other all them years ago. Now we accept each other (a wee bit more).

Nah we still cant stand the English. Insert white text smily here.

[blackie_2k5]

It's suddenly went all quiet in here

[Davyy]

That above post developed what I was trying to say rather well!

[Viper]

Please elaborate,its easy for you to act hard & be a little keyboard warrior.In reality your probably quite socially inept, head full of mumbo jumbo.

That is all.

There is nothing to elaborate on. You failed to put together a proper reply so you proved my point.

At no point have I acted hard either. How is my head 'full of mumbo jumbo'? You were the one complaining about churches being taken over by Muslims. If the Church wasn't being used by whichever religion you don't hate then why does it matter who uses it now?

[Viper]

I suppose what people are actually trying to say is that they dont oppose any religeon or faith. They dont detest their way of life or beleifs. They dont mind other religeons coming into the UK.

Im sure many people have heard the phrase "a home from home". What is the definition of this to you? My definition of this may be different to other peoples. A country such as Spain is a good example where there are lot of expat brits over there. Alot of them may call certain areas 'a home from home' maybe because there are shops selling english products and english restaurants and cafes, fast food outlets, English bars, english gyms and other such specific english ammenities etc. Its a home from home because its all english and they have the ability to live as though they are in England, the option to pay in sterlin or euro in stores and go to english speaking places. Just different weather and they drive on the wrong side of the road lol.

Now, we already have areas which are classed as ghettos...not in a disrespectfull way, but just using the word ghetto for its definition where an area is largly populated by a certain nationality. These nationalities say for example Polish make that area a home from home with everything I have just described for english in spain. The English that live in the Polish ghetto have to travel further to go to their 'home lands shops such as Asda, Marks and Spencer. If a large area is gradually inhabited by one certain race, that area will become a home from home for Polish. Its no longer the home for an old English person.

So now say Nottingham, Lincoln, Leicester become a home from home for one certain nationality, how long before other areas are also going to become part of this? England will just become one big city. Certain cities as a ghetto of a nationality. English in Cambridge, Polish in Lincoln, Russian Fed in Lincolnshire, Islam over there, Christian there, Catholics there. But then what if the entire country becomes a home from home for one certain nationality.

Lets me honest, an old english person isnt going to want to be a minority in their area because another nationality starts to inhabit and become the majority. Why would an old English person, or any English person want to live in an area where they dont sell their own food or clothing and have nothing around them that they would call home or homely? Its not THAT bad yet. Although ceriain areas are ghettos it doesnt take too far to travel to an area for your own food etc, but its still the fact they have to travel, and the fact its only going to continue to develop in that way.

What someone said about all english going to another country and swapping actually makes sense.

None of my post has been racist, its just a view of whats happening and an understanding of how an old english person would view things. You might notice ALOT of old people are racist and dont like any foreigner, is it any wonder, an older person would tend to find it harder to intrigrate with other nationalities especially being brought up with only their own nationality in the old days.

That is a good reply. Much better than half the people here are capable of.

Nice to see a well rounded view instead of 'kill the muslims'.

[MickyWelsh172]

Viper, pipe me off lad!

[Jazz]

Would be nothing wrong with this country if most the Muslims did as they are told by the Qu'ran and respect the land they live in and abide by the lands rule.

Very true point- the religion actually demands this.

A few black-sheep choose to ignore this and give the rest a bad name. I'd like to see Mosques actively work to root out the extremist elements and hand them over. They are in a very good position to work alongside the authorities and attack extremism from within.

[hazlo]

Very true point- the religion actually demands this.

A few black-sheep choose to ignore this and give the rest a bad name. I'd like to see Mosques actively work to root out the extremist elements and hand them over. They are in a very good position to work alongside the authorities and attack extremism from within.

Black sheep?! Sir you are a racist!

[Yates]

I`m not even going to taken time to give a proper reply to this,except to say that your a prime example of a public schoolboy.Removed from the real world
with no idea.

It does make me laugh the comments on here. I quoted the one above as it just proves that just because you see what someone posts you automatically think you know them. In this case you couldnt be further away if you tried.

As for mosques I couldn't care less. I don't know how many there is where I live nor do I care.

[Prickle]

I don't know how many there is where I live nor do I care.

Me too.

[smiith]

They can build em if they want.. But they just need to realise, someone will have an opinion, and at some point, they will do something about it, and it will end up getting burnt down or something..

Before christianity, the British were protestants.. Then the romans came and changed all that.. People can believe in any god they want, if it helps em sleep at night.. Even if they are wrong to believe in a god at all.

As for the laws, if they don't want our laws, don't move here. Simple as that

[L33h]

they wouldnt be happy if went over to their countries and started building churches everywhere. They'd go mental

[GolfJay]

One last photo from today. Sorry about the poor quality

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g439/L1QuiD/IMG_20130608_133750_zps982bd9b5.jpg

[smiith]

Christians have been going on missions to africa and such for years, places without religion, and building churches to suck people in..

Jerusalem, has all different religions within it..

It's not like they are trying to make you go by their religion, they just want to build somewhere to pray..

There isn't a large number of christians in iraq and such, so no need for a church.. Most of them pray so many times a day, I'd say 90% of people christened in England, don't go to church once in 10 years, nevermind every day..

[L33h]

fair point tbh i never thought of it that way.

What are the EDL trying to achieve? Cos if its making themselves look like complete wankers, its working. Fair enough if they're against it all but they're going about it the total wrong way

[McGuire86]

Before christianity, the British were protestants.. Then the romans came and changed all that..
that

What exactly do you think Protestantism is ? As you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about I'll tell you. It is a division within Christianity. Protestants came about in Britain after the Romans where here, mainly due to Henry VIII being refused a divorce by the Pope. So he formed his own church, Church of England. He later died of syphilis lol..

The dominant religion in Britain before the Roman Empire occupied it was Paganism.

People who claim to know so much but know very little do amuse me.

[simmo]

In 1,000,000 years we'll all be worshiping harry potter books anyway

[L33h]

i dont know alot about religion tbh lol. Im pure atheist

[smiith]

What exactly do you think Protestantism is ? As you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about I'll tell you. It is a division within Christianity. Protestants came about in Britain after the Romans where here, mainly due to Henry VIII being refused a divorce by the Pope. So he formed his own church, Church of England. He later died of syphilis lol..

The dominant religion in Britain before the Roman Empire occupied it was Paganism.

People who claim to know so much but know very little do amuse me.

That was the one i was thinking of, pagans, just got my words mixed up.. MY BAD!

I was playing fifa at the time i wrote that!

Paganism to the christianity wank! You know what i mean big lad

[MickyWelsh172]

I was playing fifa at the time i wrote that!

You joined a Pro Club?

[smiith]

You joined a Pro Club?

I'm in Jay's saxp sort of club, with connor, and brettles..

Rarely play clubs though, unless i see someone online

[McGuire86]

That was the one i was thinking of, pagans, just got my words mixed up.. MY BAD!

I was playing fifa at the time i wrote that!

Paganism to the christianity wank! You know what i mean big lad

Just trolling you wee man

[smiith]

Reported for trolling
trololol

[MickyWelsh172]

Rarely play clubs though, unless i see someone online

Ahh man, clubs is better than FUT majority of the time, have a right laugh sometimes.

Just won the EA shield this afternoon, down to 10 menm losing 2-0 in 90th minute, won 4-3 AET!

Sheer delight

[Ashleyp]

People dislike muslims more because they're in the news. the media can use them as an easy scapegoat to build up racial prejudice

rapes / murders etc happen all the time, but when it's white people doing the crime, it's less interesting. when a muslim does it, it's easy to stir up racial tension.

If people believed that all muslims are bad people when a small minority commit crimes, then surely all christians are bad people because of the small minority that was the Nazi's...

Regardless of colour / race / background / whatever, there are pricks in all areas of society.

I don't personally agree with some muslim customs, but at the same time, I disagree with white british who spend their whole lives scrounging off the system... there's good and bad in all aspects of society.

All this racial tension is simply created by the media and their misrepresentation of what happens in our world. people just don't try to read anything outside of what the sun / dailymail / bbc tells them.

Muslims are good people from my experience of living in a predominantly non-white community :)

[L33h]

Yes but if a white man and a muslim have a fight, if the white man starts it then it instantly goes down as racism. If its the other way around then its assault. This is what pisses me off

[Ashleyp]

Yes but if a white man and a muslim have a fight, if the white man starts it then it instantly goes down as racism. If its the other way around then its assault. This is what pisses me off

If a white man attacks a muslim it's a racial attack.

when a muslim attacks a white man, it's a terrorist attack.

neither stereotypes are correct, but who's fault is that? the whole muslim community or the media who like to use certain words to stir up hatred to a particular social group?

[L33h]

in my experience white people are scared to say anything to them unless they play the racist card. but i agree with you about the terrorist thing, the do get branded that alot for no reason.

However i dont think its the media thats to blame

[Ashleyp]

in my experience white people are scared to say anything to them unless they play the racist card. but i agree with you about the terrorist thing, the do get branded that alot for no reason.

However i dont think its the media thats to blame

Who else is able to communicate 'news' to everyone in the country?

People like to think propagander is a thing of the past, it happens every day on the news.

they don't tell you about the christians killing millions in Africa, but they'll tell you the Muslim man who killed a soldier is a terrorist...

A lot of white people like to think they're above other cultures, the media just fuels this. (edit): a lot of muslims think they're above white people too, and their media will fuel that... as I said earlier, there's problems with aspects of ALL cultures.

[Viper]

they wouldnt be happy if went over to their countries and started building churches everywhere. They'd go mental

http://www.saintmarysdubai.com

[marialouise_xo]

I'm not a major fan of religion in general, it's far too hypocritical and has been used to justify far too many murders, rapes & wars etc.

However, I do believe each to their own. If you want to believe something then go ahead and do it, just don't be forcing it upon everyone else. Especially if you're going to suggest degrading certain groups of society and changing the way a whole country behaves.

[Jazz]

People dislike muslims more because they're in the news. the media can use them as an easy scapegoat to build up racial prejudice

rapes / murders etc happen all the time, but when it's white people doing the crime, it's less interesting. when a muslim does it, it's easy to stir up racial tension.

If people believed that all muslims are bad people when a small minority commit crimes, then surely all christians are bad people because of the small minority that was the Nazi's...

Regardless of colour / race / background / whatever, there are pricks in all areas of society.

I don't personally agree with some muslim customs, but at the same time, I disagree with white british who spend their whole lives scrounging off the system... there's good and bad in all aspects of society.

All this racial tension is simply created by the media and their misrepresentation of what happens in our world. people just don't try to read anything outside of what the sun / dailymail / bbc tells them.

Muslims are good people from my experience of living in a predominantly non-white community :)

Good post, agree with this :y:

[blackie_2k5]

It does make me laugh the comments on here. I quoted the one above as it just proves that just because you see what someone posts you automatically think you know them. In this case you couldnt be further away if you tried.

As for mosques I couldn't care less. I don't know how many there is where I live nor do I care.

Me too.

Far as I can tell its pretty quiet up our neck on that front

So can't really relate to some ppl on here, however.. I do travel alot and having visited Bradford and alot of Leeds/Marcus' area.. Aswel as a few others, can see why alot of ppl are narked

[blackie_2k5]

In 1,000,000 years we'll all be worshiping harry potter books anyway

Very true

Strongly believe all religion etc is based on the stories of the most popular man in any tribe/village

It's been proven, in small circles these days ppl will still fight to the death for the beliefs of one man because he has been all they'd seen, even infront of indisputable evidence

[Davyy]

Nice tweet from a muslim..

@jabz98: @joshygotzenovis @EDLTrobinson awwwww..RED PASSPORT. UK CITIZEN. We taking over.

@jabz98: “@adair73: @jabz98 #giveusawave as you are deported : )” iv got a red passport pal. This is MY COUNTRY. We take your jobs and everything. AW


Prick.

[0rang3peel]

Nice tweet from a muslim..

@jabz98: @joshygotzenovis @EDLTrobinson awwwww..RED PASSPORT. UK CITIZEN. We taking over.

@jabz98: “@adair73: @jabz98 #giveusawave as you are deported : )” iv got a red passport pal. This is MY COUNTRY. We take your jobs and everything. AW


Prick.

lol he's trolling...

"this is MY COUNTRY, we take your jobs"... if it's his country they're his jobs too lol

[Mochachino]

lol he's trolling...

"this is MY COUNTRY, we take your jobs"... if it's his country they're his jobs too lol

hahaha, so basic but so funny

[Viper]

Nice tweet from a muslim..

@jabz98: @joshygotzenovis @EDLTrobinson awwwww..RED PASSPORT. UK CITIZEN. We taking over.

@jabz98: “@adair73: @jabz98 #giveusawave as you are deported : )” iv got a red passport pal. This is MY COUNTRY. We take your jobs and everything. AW


Prick.

Shit, point proven. Nobody born in England does anything wrong.

[Nates-VTR]

In 1,000,000 years we'll all be worshiping harry potter books anyway

Hopefully, it's better fiction than the bollix that's been going around the last thousands of years..

[blackie_2k5]

Shit, point proven. Nobody born in England does anything wrong.

I heard you take moral high ground whenever possible, especially over Saxo owners and the way they drive And present themselves

Then crashed a 10k s15 trying to show off at the end of a meet?

Just what id heard, but also heard you didn't want it on Saxp and got certain mods to delete posts referring to it

Even ones in this thread

Any truth?

[manta]

Viper did you have an iccle accident?

[blackie_2k5]

Ask the Nissan :hug:

[eeyore]

Im from rochdale, where as some may know was one of the first 'grooming gangs' was uncovered. The authoritys knew what was happening and failed to act on it. The edl did a march here and I took part in it, many of my friens go to a few marches. As with any political movement or party some of there views and policys are not to everyoned liking, however tommy robinson does speak quite a lot of sense. You have a large majority of muslims attempting to enforce us to live under sharia law, and do things there way.

there country was shit so they moved here for a better life, and want to now replicate there own country.

im not a racist I have a lot of friends from all walks of life and have a large portion of family in india. However I do think that they should abide by the rules of our land as have many other religions. We as a nation are too pussy footed to say or do anything, which is why we allow empty coffins to be carried through our streets for their 'brother' who have died in iraq and afgan.

Oh and by the way Ive been to an edl march, ive never been to an interview with trainers and jeans on, ive worked everyday since I was 16. I have a iq of far more than 10 which is why I run my own company and earn 40k a year so clearly your belief on the sort of people in the edl is very misconstrued

[Mochachino]

Im from rochdale, where as some may know was one of the first 'grooming gangs' was uncovered. The authoritys knew what was happening and failed to act on it. The edl did a march here and I took part in it, many of my friens go to a few marches. As with any political movement or party some of there views and policys are not to everyoned liking, however tommy robinson does speak quite a lot of sense. You have a large majority of muslims attempting to enforce us to live under sharia law, and do things there way.

there country was shit so they moved here for a better life, and want to now replicate there own country.

im not a racist I have a lot of friends from all walks of life and have a large portion of family in india. However I do think that they should abide by the rules of our land as have many other religions. We as a nation are too pussy footed to say or do anything, which is why we allow empty coffins to be carried through our streets for their 'brother' who have died in iraq and afgan.

Oh and by the way Ive been to an edl march, ive never been to an interview with trainers and jeans on, ive worked everyday since I was 16. I have a iq of far more than 10 which is why I run my own company and earn 40k a year so clearly your belief on the sort of people in the edl is very misconstrued

An IQ*
Their*

[eeyore]

An IQ*
Their*

Congratulations you can correct someone's spelling and grammar. :clapping:

English isn't my strongest subject. Clearly being an arse is what your good at.;)

[Mochachino]

Congratulations you can correct someone's spelling and grammar. :clapping:

English isn't my strongest subject. Clearly being an arse is what your good at.;)

Cheer up :hug:

[eeyore]

Cheer up :hug:

Haha very sarcastic when I've just woke up :p

[stevo67]

It does make me laugh the comments on here. I quoted the one above as it just proves that just because you see what someone posts you automatically think you know them. In this case you couldnt be further away if you tried.

As for mosques I couldn't care less. I don't know how many there is where I live nor do I care.

Yates i`m not referring to you,viper always tries to take the moral high ground &

is always there putting petrol on the fire.The lethargic apathy that exists in modern britain is why this country going downhill fast.Whatever happened to national pride?If I want to see mosques i`ll visit other countries,i`m against violence but something needs to be done to protect our country & fast.:drink:

[eeyore]

Yates i`m not referring to you,viper always tries to take the moral high ground &

is always there putting petrol on the fire.The lethargic apathy that exists in modern britain is why this country going downhill fast.Whatever happened to national pride?If I want to see mosques i`ll visit other countries,i`m against violence but something needs to be done to protect our country & fast.:drink:

Well said! Around here they have made a taxi firm remove st george cross from the side of their cars and pubs remove flags from their windows. All apparantly as they fear its en citing a racial devide!!

[Ashleyp]

Yates i`m not referring to you,viper always tries to take the moral high ground &

is always there putting petrol on the fire.The lethargic apathy that exists in modern britain is why this country going downhill fast.Whatever happened to national pride?If I want to see mosques i`ll visit other countries,i`m against violence but something needs to be done to protect our country & fast.:drink:

Out of interest, why are you so worried about there being mosques in the country?

Have you ever been to somewhere like Wythenshaw? It's essentially a predominantly white council estate where a stupidly high percantage of people have never, and probably never will be employed. It's a shit hole, and I highly doubt that many of the people feel a sense of national pride.

I agree, patriotism is a good thing, however building mosques and having citizens of asian origin doesn't destroy national pride, people from all backgrounds are to blame.

Don't be so intent on blaming Muslims for the country going down hill, that's just uneducated and ignorant.

[Ashleyp]

Mosque got built near my best mates house a huge one that is the size of 2 football pitches. The land was refused permission for a private sports center but yet given for a huge mosque with towers and domes that quite honestly are a eye sore. The fact that it was built doesn't bother the locals, its the fact that they go to prayer at all times of nights in their cars revving and acting like fools all the time when the none muslims are trying to sleep.

I'd personally be quite annoyed if I lived by a large car park and had to put up with several English people revving their cars late at night at a modified car meet.

the problem isn't mosques being built, in this case I get the impression you're annoyed because of where it is built. However, if it was a mosque, a nightclub, a macdonalds or anything else that opens late at night the local community would be annoyed.

People have a right to get annoyed with other people revving their cars / being noisy and generally being annoying. Whether they're muslim / white / black / chinese is irrelivant...

[Viper]

that's just uneducated and ignorant.

Ooooh be careful Ash, they'll be upset for being called uneducated and ignorant!

[Bedford126]

Ooooh be careful Ash, they'll be upset for being called uneducated and ignorant!

A little like you being uneducated and ignorant in the way a RWD car drives and handles.

[TomT]

I heard you take moral high ground whenever possible, especially over Saxo owners and the way they drive And present themselves

Then crashed a 10k s15 trying to show off at the end of a meet?

Just what id heard, but also heard you didn't want it on Saxp and got certain mods to delete posts referring to it

Even ones in this thread

Any truth?

Reported x

[blackie_2k5]

I'd imagine so Tom

[Bedford126]

I'd personally be quite annoyed if I lived by a large car park and had to put up with several English people revving their cars late at night at a modified car meet.

the problem isn't mosques being built, in this case I get the impression you're annoyed because of where it is built. However, if it was a mosque, a nightclub, a macdonalds or anything else that opens late at night the local community would be annoyed.

People have a right to get annoyed with other people revving their cars / being noisy and generally being annoying. Whether they're muslim / white / black / chinese is irrelivant...

In what way is it not relevant the fact that they are Muslim is the whole point that they go to mosque through the night and ignore the basic teachings of their religion.

[McGuire86]

http://i.imgur.com/mm92f.jpg

[Ashleyp]

In what way is it not relevant the fact that they are Muslim is the whole point that they go to mosque through the night and ignore the basic teachings of their religion.

Yes, but my point is if it was a nightclub instead of a mosque and filled with with white / black / whatever colour, the local people would be equally annoyed.

thus, that example as to why mosques shouldn't be built / muslims shouldn't be in the country or whatever other views you may have is pointless.

It is the location of the building that has caused the problem, not the muslim community as a whole.

[Viper]

Yes, but my point is if it was a nightclub instead of a mosque and filled with with white / black / whatever colour, the local people would be equally annoyed.

thus, that example as to why mosques shouldn't be built / muslims shouldn't be in the country or whatever other views you may have is pointless.

It is the location of the mosque that has caused the problem, not the muslim community as a whole.

Ash, you may as well try to explain yourself to a wall. It will have just as much of an impact.

[Ashleyp]

Ash, you may as well try to explain yourself to a wall. It will have just as much of an impact.

It appears that way, worth a shot though! :)

[Nates-VTR]

Religion is evil.

[Bedford126]

Ash, you may as well try to explain yourself to a wall. It will have just as much of an impact.

A bit like the impact the silvia had with you driving it? You're just upset that daddy didn't dip his cock in your arse this morning.

[stevo67]

Out of interest, why are you so worried about there being mosques in the country?

Have you ever been to somewhere like Wythenshaw? It's essentially a predominantly white council estate where a stupidly high percantage of people have never, and probably never will be employed. It's a shit hole, and I highly doubt that many of the people feel a sense of national pride.

I agree, patriotism is a good thing, however building mosques and having citizens of asian origin doesn't destroy national pride, people from all backgrounds are to blame.

Don't be so intent on blaming Muslims for the country going down hill, that's just uneducated and ignorant.

I agree its only part of the problem,but its not much fun seeing your local area go downhill,& feeling in a minority in your own country.Being treated differently & not allowed to speak out for fear of being labelled a racist.Round my way every year sikh`s have a parade & are allowed to carry a dagger/sword if I did that i`d be arrested.English is a wonderful language pity that`s being heard less & less.I could add a lot more to this.

[Ross]

Thank you gentlemen. Lets stop the personal insults/attacks please... :)

[Davyy]

I want to see pics of this crash :(

Why does he blank every post relating to it and not answer?

[Ross]

I want to see pics of this crash :(

Why does he blank every post relating to it and not answer?

Perhaps drop him a PM rather than go completely off topic in a Islam/Mosques thread and find out :)

[Ashleyp]

I agree its only part of the problem,but its not much fun seeing your local area go downhill,& feeling in a minority in your own country.Being treated differently & not allowed to speak out for fear of being labelled a racist.Round my way every year sikh`s have a parade & are allowed to carry a dagger/sword if I did that i`d be arrested.English is a wonderful language pity that`s being heard less & less.I could add a lot more to this.

I do agree mate. I mean for example; I wouldn't be allowed to walk into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on, so why should certain people be allowed to wear head-dress which actively covers up their identity.

On the other end of the scale, I also remember working and armed police turning up because some stupid manager at work thought a sikh with his knife [I don't know the religious name for it] was a terrorist (her exact words), which is equally as disgusting.

The problem is as I see it is that there's plenty of ignorance on all sides, and there's far too many people of all cultures who expect a living without contributing to society in any beneficial way. Their ignorance has allowed them to blame opposing cultures for their own problems instead of working together as a collective to promote a better country.

There are muslims with extreme views who think they're better than white people, and there's also white people who think they deserve to rule supreme over other cultures, but they're just a minority who are over-hyped by the media in a bid to promote segregation rather than integration.

There's lots of good things about muslim culture, and lots of good things about British culture, as well as many other cultures, and in a utopian world we'd utilise the positives from all to create a better world. Sadly, that'll probably never happen :(

[Ross]

I agree its only part of the problem,but its not much fun seeing your local area go downhill,& feeling in a minority in your own country.Being treated differently & not allowed to speak out for fear of being labelled a racist.Round my way every year sikh`s have a parade & are allowed to carry a dagger/sword if I did that i`d be arrested.English is a wonderful language pity that`s being heard less & less.I could add a lot more to this.

And it's unusual for me to speak out on a sensitive subject like this, but I have to agree. I was driving through Luton last month and after basically not seeing a white guy for quite some time I actually said to the wife let's see how long it takes until we spot someone - walking, driving, whatever. Just under 2 miles before we saw anyone white - and that was an elderly couple. I suddenly felt quite upset for them - if they've lived there all their lives and are now gradually over the last 20+ years the minority, that must feel pretty fucking intimidating tbh. I know of places in Luton where if you're white you'll not get served in shops- simple as that. And obviously areas where you'd just not go at night.

It's one thing to be culturally diverse, it's another to drive out the existing population due to fear or oppression. I know you could say that about a lot of places in the world, but it doesn't make it right.

[Ashleyp]

And it's unusual for me to speak out on a sensitive subject like this, but I have to agree. I was driving through Luton last month and after basically not seeing a white guy for quite some time I actually said to the wife let's see how long it takes until we spot someone - walking, driving, whatever. Just under 2 miles before we saw anyone white - and that was an elderly couple. I suddenly felt quite upset for them - if they've lived there all their lives and are now gradually over the last 20+ years the minority, that must feel pretty fucking intimidating tbh. I know of places in Luton where if you're white you'll not get served in shops- simple as that. And obviously areas where you'd just not go at night.

It's one thing to be culturally diverse, it's another to drive out the existing population due to fear or oppression. I know you could say that about a lot of places in the world, but it doesn't make it right.

I agree with you, Ross. I've got family in Luton so know how much of a shit hole places of it are.

I'm not sure how well you know the town, if at all, but the same situation happens in Bedford, specifically queens park which is an area dominated by Asians.

It is a shit hole, that's undeniable, and there's barely any white people living there, however my issue with it is that it's as if the council promotes segregation. They've just built a new village (great denham) which connects to the back end of queens park and there's a fence seperating them, it's as if the council don't want the residents to enter the new estate in a bid to 'keep it clean' I guess you could say.

It's sad, but as Danny mentioned earlier, ghetto's are created.

I'd like to point out though that in Manchester, Wythenshaw (as I mentioned earlier) is a predominantly white shit hole with ridiculously high unemployment etc, thus people can't just blame asians for 'sticking together' as such.

It's the authorities who cause these ghettos, ethnic cleansing happens every day in London for example where minorities are moved out of their home to build a nice new block of apartments for middle class people to live in giving the area a better image...

[Heliosphan]

The Office for National Statistics confirms that Pakistani and Bangladeshi women, whoare now living in the UK, have around 3 times as many children as UK women. Indeed, 1 in 4 children born in the UK (in 2011) were born to foreign mothers.

So, when it comes to diversity, how much do we accept before we say enough is enough?

Is it when the white indigenous population becomes minoritised? Is it when the muslim population reaches 20%-30%? Is that when the bleeding heart liberals of this country will be happy?

Islam IN GENERAL has a misogynistic and homophobic streak to it. It also has a poor track record when it comes to human rights. So in view, of the burgeoning muslim population, I think it's MORALLY CORRECT to express a degree of caution and certainly not racist. Once the muslim population starts to reach a significant percentage of the overall population, this is when it can begin to take a much stronger foothold in all areas of society and politics...and who knows where that will lead. Given that certain attitudes within the Islamic community (as a whole) face-off directly with ours, it might not be pretty.

Fast-forward a century or two, when we're long gong, and our descendents will be judging whether what we're doing now was a success or a catastophic failure.

[Viper]

& not allowed to speak out for fear of being labelled a racist.

It isn't a case of not being able to speak out, it's more a case of how you (and others) voice their opinions.

The way Ash has made his arguments compared to the way you have is completely different. One showed signs of thought and the other just showed signs of someone mashing the keyboard and randomly typing muslim and mosque.

[Chr15]

Tom's S15 is fine, I saw it today :S

A Muslim? Whats that? I live out in the sticks, even in town you rarely see them. You're considered 'foreign' even from another county, never mind country :p

[stevo67]

It isn't a case of not being able to speak out, it's more a case of how you (and others) voice their opinions.

The way Ash has made his arguments compared to the way you have is completely different. One showed signs of thought and the other just showed signs of someone mashing the keyboard and randomly typing muslim and mosque.

Its an emotive subject & one that I feel strongly about,most on here are too young to have seen the impact that immigration has had on this country.There are many things wrong with this country & no quick fixes,I stand by my statement though that there is apathy amongst a great many in society.This is where ukip has struck a chord with many & it remains to be seen if they have any other policies except those on immigration & europe.

[Ryan]

If people are unable to keep personal digs out of threads like this despite being warned to stop, they can consider their access to the community to be coming to an end.

Grow up for fucks sake.

[hellonpluto]

should go back to days in elizabethean times when we used to burn catholics.

[McGuire86]

should go back to days in elizabethean times when we used to burn catholics.

I reckon your Dad should of told your Mother to swallow you but we can't have it all.

[b0t13]

ok my points on this:

the issue everyone has isnt with the religion, its with the shit culture of the people who happen to be muslim, not just the religion itself,

bradford - shithole
birmingham - shithole
areas in manchester - shithole
london - shithole

one common theme here, and btw i live next to wythenshawe, its got higher unemployement yes, lots of white people yes, but is it a shithole full of rubbish, crappy shops, rapists, smackheads.... no.

now compare that to longsight(asian central), moss side(black area), gorton etc etc etc

id much rather live in a white 'bad area' than others, even if i wasnt white!

if they didnt try forcing their opinions and beliefs onto our society or drag every area they overpopulate into a bag of shit, claim every scam they can find and reproduce massively,

then noone would have this much of a problem!, when was the last 'we hate chinese people thread' on any forum on the internet or the anti-jew ones etc.. etc..

also the people against the people having views saying 'oh your soo dumb like the edl, get and education blah blah' your so deluded, and most of the time its because your views are from the 'outside' living in a nice middleclass area surrounded by either richer 'established' ethnics that are nice, not the masses that people are talking about

[Chris_O]

ok my points on this:

the issue everyone has isnt with the religion, its with the shit culture of the people who happen to be muslim, not just the religion itself,

bradford - shithole
birmingham - shithole
areas in manchester - shithole
london - shithole

one common theme here, and btw i live next to wythenshawe, its got higher unemployement yes, lots of white people yes, but is it a shithole full of rubbish, crappy shops, rapists, smackheads.... no.

now compare that to longsight(asian central), moss side(black area), gorton etc etc etc

id much rather live in a white 'bad area' than others, even if i wasnt white!

if they didnt try forcing their opinions and beliefs onto our society or drag every area they overpopulate into a bag of shit, claim every scam they can find and reproduce massively,

then noone would this much of a problem!, when was the last 'we hate chinese people thread' on any forum on the internet or the anti-jew ones etc.. etc..

Funnily enough I was talking about this with my gf at the weekend. We went for a meal in Chinatown in London, and both said to each other it's good how the Chinese never really cause any major problems and keep themselves to themselves

[AirVTS]

No problems if they want to believe in certain thigns that others dont in certain places. If Churches are being converted into mosques because the building is unused then so be it.
It's the fastest growing religion in the world so demand meets need in this case.
As long as they don't have sharia law in our country then no one needs to be bothered. Our counrty, our laws. Thats the be all and end all surely?

[Tom5190]

ok my points on this:

the issue everyone has isnt with the religion, its with the shit culture of the people who happen to be muslim, not just the religion itself,

bradford - shithole
birmingham - shithole
areas in manchester - shithole
london - shithole

one common theme here, and btw i live next to wythenshawe, its got higher unemployement yes, lots of white people yes, but is it a shithole full of rubbish, crappy shops, rapists, smackheads.... no.

now compare that to longsight(asian central), moss side(black area), gorton etc etc etc

id much rather live in a white 'bad area' than others, even if i wasnt white!

if they didnt try forcing their opinions and beliefs onto our society or drag every area they overpopulate into a bag of shit, claim every scam they can find and reproduce massively,

then noone would this much of a problem!, when was the last 'we hate chinese people thread' on any forum on the internet or the anti-jew ones etc.. etc..

I think the problem is this idea of Muslims.

Loads of people are going on about white jobless people however the description above of Muslims is what I also see in certain areas around here were the area is exactly the same, run down jobless people who don't care about changing that however on top of that its an Asian community that's taken over with its own 'home from home' and your not really welcome if you are white. Its the same as the next estate along however that's mainly white and although its a shithole you could still shop there if desired.

So basically around my area you have normal Christian people & normal Muslim people (these are the two main groups), the problem imo isn't with Muslims its with the group of nationalities that are here that happen to be Muslim. for example I know a few Indian/Pakistani people who are Muslims which are just like most other people in society, working, paying doing there thing.

Were as some groups of other nationalities mainly Iraqis at the minute are just here sponging, taking over areas and causing loads of trouble then kicking up a fuss when anybody says anything. The fact that they are Muslim isn't the sole reason its just the way of life they have came from.

I don't think its taking over, Islam is growing which I don't see any problem with however this is a Christian country, I very much doubt that will ever change and for that to happen the Royal Family would need to be removed. I do find it appauling that Churchs are turned into Mosques or houses of worship for any other religion to be honest weather the building is abandoned or not. Its not a block of flats is it.

[Ashleyp]

ok my points on this:

the issue everyone has isnt with the religion, its with the shit culture of the people who happen to be muslim, not just the religion itself,

bradford - shithole
birmingham - shithole
areas in manchester - shithole
london - shithole

one common theme here, and btw i live next to wythenshawe, its got higher unemployement yes, lots of white people yes, but is it a shithole full of rubbish, crappy shops, rapists, smackheads.... no.

now compare that to longsight(asian central), moss side(black area), gorton etc etc etc

id much rather live in a white 'bad area' than others, even if i wasnt white!

if they didnt try forcing their opinions and beliefs onto our society or drag every area they overpopulate into a bag of shit, claim every scam they can find and reproduce massively,

then noone would have this much of a problem!, when was the last 'we hate chinese people thread' on any forum on the internet or the anti-jew ones etc.. etc..

also the people against the people having views saying 'oh your soo dumb like the edl, get and education blah blah' your so deluded, and most of the time its because your views are from the 'outside' living in a nice middleclass area surrounded by either richer 'established' ethnics that are nice, not the masses that people are talking about

That statement alone shows ignorance, naivity and narrow-mindedness. And I'm not just having a go at you on this, but it's a common misconception shared by many people.

When was the last time a Mulsim knocked on your door telling you to believe in their relegion or accept their ways?

Jahova's witness' do that all the time, but people don't seem to kick up a fuss about that. Why? probably beause they're not in the news branded as a whole community of dirty rapists and murderers, even though they have many extreme views which conflict with the common way of life in Britain.

I think you'll probably find that the majority of the muslim community are people who just want to get on with their lives, and it's actually white, middle class do-gooders who are trying to create 'equality' and introducing rules to accept other cultures, not the mulsims forcing their ways upon the nation.

Yes, there are muslims with extreme views, nobody is disputing that, but there are also tonnes of white british idiots trying to impose extreme views onto the nation - both are a minority in comparison to their respective communities.

Just before you say I'm a white snob who lives in a bubble; I've lived in moss side for two years now, with no problems what so ever.

[Ashleyp]

when was the last 'we hate chinese people thread' on any forum on the internet or the anti-jew ones etc.. etc..

Oh and to pick up on this quote.

I know I keep going back to this but it is down to the media, and lack of coverage.

You think nothing bad happens in the Chinese community? or the jewish community? If you dared to read outside of the muslim hate spread by british media you'd find out something...

I mean, apartheid actively exists in Israel, where jewish people force muslims to walk on the 'dirty' side of the road so they can be sneered at...

It's common practice in china to kidnap children to work in brick factories...

Christians in Africa kill thousands of people each year.

What about the Bulgarian / Romanian community? they're not in the news much, but if you read a little you'd find they account for something stupid like 90% of card fraud in the UK... I don't see people moaning about that anywhere near as much as they'll moan about a few Muslims who've committed a crime and made it to the newspaper.

I'm not saying all Jewish / chinese / christian people are bad, but open your eyes to the world a little before you slate one single relegion or race... Granted, none of these things are directly happening in Britain, but no matter how you view it, it is ignorant to assume it's only muslims causing problems. As I've said before, there are some disgusting humans in ALL societies.

[stinkycheese]

Some logic right there. Holy fuck/

Just because some British white people are arseholes, it doesn't justify tolerating it from immigrants.

[stinkycheese]

My Brother the Islamist Documentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LorhdNH1C34

[hellonpluto]

I reckon your Dad should of told your Mother to swallow you but we can't have it all.

OH yeah muslim is best religion forget

lets take a closer look

Lets not

[McGuire86]

When did I even suggest it was or wasn't ? And Muslim is not the name of the religion, Muslims are the followers of Islam. Carry on digging your hole you bright spark.

[Carlvtr88]

And it's unusual for me to speak out on a sensitive subject like this, but I have to agree. I was driving through Luton last month and after basically not seeing a white guy for quite some time I actually said to the wife let's see how long it takes until we spot someone - walking, driving, whatever. Just under 2 miles before we saw anyone white - and that was an elderly couple. I suddenly felt quite upset for them - if they've lived there all their lives and are now gradually over the last 20+ years the minority, that must feel pretty fucking intimidating tbh. I know of places in Luton where if you're white you'll not get served in shops- simple as that. And obviously areas where you'd just not go at night.

It's one thing to be culturally diverse, it's another to drive out the existing population due to fear or oppression. I know you could say that about a lot of places in the world, but it doesn't make it right.

You just described exactly what Ward End, Alumn Rock, Sparkbrook, lozells, Nechells, Newtown and small heath in Brum is like.... apart from when there's a Birmingham game on.

[holdawayt]

birmingham - shithole

HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Birmingham is beautiful, majestic and pure.

[Carlvtr88]

HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Birmingham is beautiful, majestic and pure.

No - He's right It is.

Now allow him to explain why.

[holdawayt]

Haha erm....

[SNewham]

HOW DARE YOU!!!!

Birmingham is beautiful, majestic and pure.

Have you ever left Birmingham? It's like a whole different world :bored:

[hellonpluto]

<censored> rebels fighting syrian regime have executed a 15y/o boy in front of his family for blasphemy. jesus christ if that happened over here we'd all be dead.. oh wait.......fu....

[KamRacing]

I think people are mixing up colour of skin and religion.
You get plenty of Black christians, Asian christians, white muslims etc etc. There are plenty of muslims or sikhs or whatever who are not immigrants and are uk born. They might look different and follow different moralistic values but are british all the same.
Its not the 19th century were cultures were very independent. We cannot sit in isolation. Migration to and from countries is impossible to stop and if you did it would massively hurt the country in the commercial world. It would be like east berlin before the wall was knocked down.
Modern society is not based on you knowing your neighbours. We probably know people on the forum better than two doors down your street. Its become a little 'my home is my castle' and we only lower the drawbridge to ride our chariots at 80mph to whereever we need to go.
We therefore reach out to only those we have common ground with rather than mingling with all kinds. All sides are bad at this and its spurned on by the media and government who either actively or accidently isolate people from foreign backgrounds. Wheres all the 'white' people carrying out acts of terror? They are there but are not called terrorists. Terrorists are apparently islamic extremists who preach in the name of Islam but have little to do with it, effectively soiling a name and creating unrest for their own benefits. People from all backgrounds need to be seen to be breaking down the stigma and barriers. Its boring for the media though so you will never see it as a nation is glued to the TV instead of getting out in the local community and participating.
How british can you get when a mosque invites the EDL for tea, biscuits and a game of footy?

Peace out man!

[Ashleyp]

I think people are mixing up colour of skin and religion.
You get plenty of Black christians, Asian christians, white muslims etc etc. There are plenty of muslims or sikhs or whatever who are not immigrants and are uk born. They might look different and follow different moralistic values but are british all the same.
Its not the 19th century were cultures were very independent. We cannot sit in isolation. Migration to and from countries is impossible to stop and if you did it would massively hurt the country in the commercial world. It would be like east berlin before the wall was knocked down.
Modern society is not based on you knowing your neighbours. We probably know people on the forum better than two doors down your street. Its become a little 'my home is my castle' and we only lower the drawbridge to ride our chariots at 80mph to whereever we need to go.
We therefore reach out to only those we have common ground with rather than mingling with all kinds. All sides are bad at this and its spurned on by the media and government who either actively or accidently isolate people from foreign backgrounds. Wheres all the 'white' people carrying out acts of terror? They are there but are not called terrorists. Terrorists are apparently islamic extremists who preach in the name of Islam but have little to do with it, effectively soiling a name and creating unrest for their own benefits. People from all backgrounds need to be seen to be breaking down the stigma and barriers. Its boring for the media though so you will never see it as a nation is glued to the TV instead of getting out in the local community and participating.
How british can you get when a mosque invites the EDL for tea, biscuits and a game of footy?

Peace out man!

Spot on Kev / Graham! Exatly what I've been getting at.

[stinkycheese]

Most Muslims DO want Sharia law.

[stinkycheese]

The special poll (ICM organisations) based on a survey of 500 British Muslims found that a clear majority want Islamic law introduced into this country in civil cases relating to their own community. Some 61 per cent wanted Islamic courts - operating on sharia principles – "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law"[36]
October, 2006

[stinkycheese]

According to a new survey done at 30 universities in Britain, the young Muslim student body in that country is extremely radicalized. The poll asked 600 Muslim students and 800 of their non-Muslim peers about politically touchy subjects like killing in the name of Islam and Sharia Law—and the results were like night and day between the two demographics. While hardly anyone in the non-Muslim sample accepted killing in the name of religion, basically one-third of all Muslim students in Britain supported this.
. . .
In an ironic twist, this survey and its shocking poll results were made available only through the Wikileaks leaking of Julian Assange. The poll was revealed as part of a secret, diplomatic cable that emerged from the US Embassy in London.
Other results in the pro-Islamist survey results are also troublesome. For instance, more than half of all British Muslim students insist on being represented by a political party that is Islam-based. The clear-cut, overwhelming theme in this poll data from this leaked cable relates to the fact that many Muslims even in so-called civilized countries like Britain still want to relapse to the Middle Ages (or earlier, even) by making Islam central in all aspects of their true-believing lives.

[stinkycheese]

I was shocked to hear how widespread the whole halal meat thing is too.

[KamRacing]

So basically we have a demographic that feel threatened enough to be easily swayed towards radical ideals. Its a shame on the nation as a whole really.

[kb_pricevtr]

Fuck the mosques. Fuck the sharia law. Fuck Islam and fuck these good for nothing bastards out of Britain!

[devilsadvocate]

Fuck the mosques. Fuck the sharia law. Fuck Islam and fuck these good for nothing bastards out of Britain!

A well thought out response, well done you.

[stinkycheese]

So basically we have a demographic that feel threatened enough to be easily swayed towards radical ideals. Its a shame on the nation as a whole really.

That's nonsense. It's because they don't want to change. They see themselves as Muslims before they are British. Why would they feel threatened? They have been catered for extremely well. Too well.

[kb_pricevtr]

A well thought out response, well done you.

Well to be honest, that's how I feel. So yes it was.
Being so nobody else on here would say it.

[Viper]

Being so nobody else on here would say it.

What does that mean?

[Jazz]

Well to be honest, that's how I feel. So yes it was.
Being so nobody else on here would say it.

What does that mean?

I was wondering the same Tom.

Like this article tbh, wouldn't mind seeing more of this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits

[Dany4494]

Fuck the mosques. Fuck the sharia law. Fuck Islam and fuck these good for nothing bastards out of Britain!

+1......

[Viper]

I was wondering the same Tom.

Like this article tbh, wouldn't mind seeing more of this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/27/york-mosque-protest-tea-biscuits

I heard about that last week! One of the best things I've seen in a long time.

[Ashleyp]

Fuck the mosques. Fuck the sharia law. Fuck Islam and fuck these good for nothing bastards out of Britain!

I bet you're not that bothered when you need a taxi though, or need to pop down to a local shop, or need a doctor...

[Ashleyp]

The special poll (ICM organisations) based on a survey of 500 British Muslims found that a clear majority want Islamic law introduced into this country in civil cases relating to their own community. Some 61 per cent wanted Islamic courts - operating on sharia principles – "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law"[36]
October, 2006

Wanting something is different to trying to impose it.

I'm sure most people would like the government to give them £1million, but I don't see any protests outside parliament for it...

[Heliosphan]

Terrorists are apparently islamic extremists who preach in the name of Islam but have little to do with it, effectively soiling a name and creating unrest for their own benefits. People from all backgrounds need to be seen to be breaking down the stigma and barriers.

The killing of the soldier in London was done in the name of Islam. The reason for his death is embedded within the ideology of Islamism. An ideology that seeks to bring together the Islamic diaspora around the world under single rule. That's why he said things like 'your government' and 'our people'. This is a UK citizen who has no emotional connection to the Uk whatsoever, only to his muslim brethren around the world. There are thousands of adherents of Islamism in the UK, who identify with people in other countries simply because of religion as opposed to their fellow citizens. They won't and don't want to integrate because their ideals are at odds with ours.

Examples of Islamic intolerance are absolutely ubiquitous all over the world. Egypt, Pakistan and other countries have populations where the vast majority support the death penalty for blasphemy. Some senior ranking officials in Turkey think countries around the world should make it a criminal offence to insult Mohammed. Muslims around the world start killing people and go on riots when books are burned. It baffles me that people think this mindset precludes all muslims in the Uk.

What exactly does Islam bring to the table in the UK apart from religious zealotry, gettoisation, and a vast amount of cultural baggage?

[L33h]

It brings fuck all good

[blackie_2k5]

I bet you're not that bothered when you need a taxi though, or need to pop down to a local shop, or need a doctor...

Stereotyping :homme:

Therea are other races and religions doing those jobs ash ;)

[Ashleyp]

Stereotyping :homme:

Therea are other races and religions doing those jobs ash ;)

I never said there wasn't.

[Bedford126]

I never said there wasn't.

Yet you tried to make it sound as though all professions you posted were all ethnic?

[Ashleyp]

Yet you tried to make it sound as though all professions you posted were all ethnic?

Nope, I didn't imply anything. I meerly stated a few well known professions which are common in amongst the asian community.

Not all stereotyping is bad or prejudice. If I said it's more common for women to spend money on shoes and handbags, that wouldn't make me sexist.

[kb_pricevtr]

Well everyone else seems to be sitting on the fence with this subject, too scared to voice their own opinions or just seem to follow what other people are saying or whatever. The thing that pisses me off the most is the Muslims trying to impose their 'Sharia Law' in Britain and all the other unnecessary shit they do too. David Cameron needs a fucking rocket up his arse.

[blackie_2k5]

Yet you tried to make it sound as though all professions you posted were all ethnic?

This

I know why you did it, but that is what you did

[Jazz]

The killing of the soldier in London was done in the name of Islam. The reason for his death is embedded within the ideology of Islamism. An ideology that seeks to bring together the Islamic diaspora around the world under single rule. That's why he said things like 'your government' and 'our people'. This is a UK citizen who has no emotional connection to the Uk whatsoever, only to his muslim brethren around the world. There are thousands of adherents of Islamism in the UK, who identify with people in other countries simply because of religion as opposed to their fellow citizens. They won't and don't want to integrate because their ideals are at odds with ours.

Examples of Islamic intolerance are absolutely ubiquitous all over the world. Egypt, Pakistan and other countries have populations where the vast majority support the death penalty for blasphemy. Some senior ranking officials in Turkey think countries around the world should make it a criminal offence to insult Mohammed. Muslims around the world start killing people and go on riots when books are burned. It baffles me that people think this mindset precludes all muslims in the Uk.

What exactly does Islam bring to the table in the UK apart from religious zealotry, gettoisation, and a vast amount of cultural baggage?


"The reason for his death is embedded in the ideology of Islam?" Ok, where exactly does it state in any Islamic scripture to take the life of a man not currently engaging in any war-orientated combat?

According to my (admittedly limited) research, none. The verses giving soldiers permission to slay enemies was given as a war-time command and referred to soldiers on the front line.

The scripts also talk about treating prisoners of war humanely, giving them food and shelter and taking responsibility for their well-being- written in a time where brutal slaying of any POWs was seen as the only acceptable practice.

The scriptures also repeatedly talk about respecting and obeying the laws of the land you live in- something extremists choose to ignore and infact completely go against.

Death penalty is still a popular flavour with our biggest allies, too.

Edit- it is also worth noting that the Woolwich attackers as well as the French attacker who stabbed a police officer were NOT traditional Muslims- they were all fairly recent converts from other religious backgrounds and it looks likely they were subjected to the extremsist element which has a completely different mindset and agenda to the mainstream, rational sect.

[Ashleyp]

This

I know why you did it, but that is what you did

Read my reply to Bedford's comment.

I simply stated 3 common professions known to be common amongst asians. At no point did I imply, state or suggest those jobs were only occupied by muslims.

Of course, being on low wit, I'd expect you to try and nit-pick in order to try and sound intelligent rather than holding a conversation.

[Ashleyp]

"The reason for his death is embedded in the ideology of Islam?" Ok, where exactly does it state in any Islamic scripture to take the life of a man not currently engaging in any war-orientated combat?

According to my (admittedly limited) research, none. The verses giving soldiers permission to slay enemies was given as a war-time command and referred to soldiers on the front line.

The scripts also talk about treating prisoners of war humanely, giving them food and shelter and taking responsibility for their well-being- written in a time where brutal slaying of any POWs was seen as the only acceptable practice.

The scriptures also repeatedly talk about respecting and obeying the laws of the land you live in- something extremists choose to ignore and infact completely go against.

Death penalty is still a popular flavour with our biggest allies, too.

Edit- it is also worth noting that the Woolwich attackers as well as the French attacker who stabbed a police officer were NOT traditional Muslims- they were all fairly recent converts from other religious backgrounds and it looks likely they were subjected to the extremsist element which has a completely different mindset and agenda to the mainstream, rational sect.

wot da fuck r u on about m8? All muslims r terrorists, the daily mail says so!

[Bedford126]

Of course, being on low wit, I'd expect you to try and nit-pick in order to try and sound intelligent rather than holding a conversation.

No by your post you implied that if there were no ethnic groups in the country there would be no doctors or taxi drivers. So being of low wit you should read through the comment and explain why you chose those professions if you didn't wish to put them in a stereotypical category.

[blackie_2k5]

Yet you tried to make it sound as though all professions you posted were all ethnic?

Read my reply to Bedford's comment.

I simply stated 3 common professions known to be common amongst asians. At no point did I imply, state or suggest those jobs were only occupied by muslims.

Of course, being on low wit, I'd expect you to try and nit-pick in order to try and sound intelligent rather than holding a conversation.

I read it

Also read this again


I bet you're not that bothered when you need a taxi though, or need to pop down to a local shop, or need a doctor...


Yep, defo looks like you're saying that if he ever need one of these things he wouldn't find a white British or other race/religion doing it

What's to converse about? You pick on other people's narrow minded and stereotyping posts but don't like it when other ppl take you personally out of context

As for low on low on wit, I'm not the one putting out personal insults, that's a trait for those who don't have a better reply, best be careful with those insults in this thread, Ryan's banning ppl for that...well, some people will get banned

[Ashleyp]

No by your post you implied that if there were no ethnic groups in the country there would be no doctors or taxi drivers. So being of low wit you should read through the comment and explain why you chose those professions if you didn't wish to put them in a stereotypical category.

All you've done is reitterate your last post, which i replied to, with the answer you required.

Once again, stereotypes are not a bad thing. And as I've stated, I did not state that those professions were only occupied by asians.

It is evident that your lack of intelligence is shining through once again, perhaps you should get back to the low level humour that is attempting to make Viper upset... Oh, you failed miserably at that too.

[Bedford126]

All you've done is reitterate your last post, which i replied to, with the answer you required.

Once again, stereotypes are not a bad thing. And as I've stated, I did not state that those professions were only occupied by asians.

It is evident that your lack of intelligence is shining through once again, perhaps you should get back to the low level humour that is attempting to make Viper upset... Oh, you failed miserably at that too.

I have lack of intelligence yet you cant spell humor correctly? ..............Trololololol

At what point did you explain yourself? your post is still incorrect to where all Asians are doctors and taxi drivers.

Also who said my sig was about viper? yet again you made assumptions.

[Jazz]

wot da fuck r u on about m8? All muslims r terrorists, the daily mail says so!

Of course blud. Lets grab some flags, hit da streets and fuck shit up. Braaaap!

[Jazz]

I have lack of intelligence yet you cant spell humor correctly?

In UK English it is indeed 'Humour'.

If we go Stateside we lose the 'U'.

[Bedford126]

In UK English it is indeed 'Humour'.

If we go Stateside we lose the 'U'.

Think you deleted some of my quote there mate.

[KamRacing]

The killing of the soldier in London was done in the name of Islam. The reason for his death is embedded within the ideology of Islamism. An ideology that seeks to bring together the Islamic diaspora around the world under single rule. That's why he said things like 'your government' and 'our people'. This is a UK citizen who has no emotional connection to the Uk whatsoever, only to his muslim brethren around the world. There are thousands of adherents of Islamism in the UK, who identify with people in other countries simply because of religion as opposed to their fellow citizens. They won't and don't want to integrate because their ideals are at odds with ours.

Examples of Islamic intolerance are absolutely ubiquitous all over the world. Egypt, Pakistan and other countries have populations where the vast majority support the death penalty for blasphemy. Some senior ranking officials in Turkey think countries around the world should make it a criminal offence to insult Mohammed. Muslims around the world start killing people and go on riots when books are burned. It baffles me that people think this mindset precludes all muslims in the Uk.

What exactly does Islam bring to the table in the UK apart from religious zealotry, gettoisation, and a vast amount of cultural baggage?

Why tar the lot with the same brush. Thats the problem. Should Christians in the UK be seen in the same light as the pastor Terry Jones in the American deep south? No - we see him as a flipping idiot. I dont think you have a clue as to what the Quran is about. Just like the Bible it can be misinterpreted and misused as an ideal for violence and discrimination when in fact its all about the opposite. A lot of attention gets thrown at a few individuals and the masses believe this is the view of all 1.6 million muslims in the uk. Put it into perspective. The whole muslim population is 3% of the uk population. We have 33 million christians. People need to get some sense of perspective over the whole issue. There will always be horrible people in the world and some of them are british muslims. That does not need a rounding up and booting out of these people out the uk. Next we will be saying all paedophile based murders are white middle aged men and they should all be imprisoned, or all truck drivers rape prostitutes...

People complain that things need to change yet sit back and wait for others. Thats not how things work. You want better integration then you need to integrate. If you want less radicalism in the UK on all sides then you need to eliminate the causes and reasons for their silly ideals.

[b0t13]

tbh ashley you did imply corner shops taxis and doctors are muslim,

i personally think good, get rid, taxis are over priced, corner shops even worse and i dont fancy some second rate doctor without a UK doctorate,
although im yet to meet a muslim doctor as most come from india, theres a difference ;)

also my point about we dont have these issues with jews, chinese etc was aimed at issues HERE, they come here, integrate dont try to influence or pull the race card every 5 mins,

they thrive, what do the moosys actually contribute in their MASS numbers?

and dont get me started on romaininininannns, that lot should be shot on site..

[KamRacing]

You really think theres been no hostility against the Jews in the UK!? White protestants and catholics cannot get along let alone when someone has a different colour skin.
Why do you think we have loads of foreign doctors? If there was no need they would not be here.

[b0t13]

im comparison to muslims/asians, not really!

im not talking 100% either way but the majority of hate from people of all types in this country is towards muslims and its justified in alot of cases,

theres no good use for mass importation of unskilled, sponging people that reprocreate in mass numbers and follow sky faries!

theres plenty of useless people here(white brown yellow) and high unemployment already, letting the romanians come here will finish us off tbh! as they actively beg/borrow/steal as a 'culture' :S

[Carlvtr88]

You really think theres been no hostility against the Jews in the UK!? White protestants and catholics cannot get along let alone when someone has a different colour skin.
Why do you think we have loads of foreign doctors? If there was no need they would not be here.

They ( Current Doctors ) were from times when majority of foreign people did genuinely want to leave their homes for education in the UK.

A lot of them now know we are a soft touch. They illegally enter England, then just claim they will be killed and get granted Asylum.
Then they abscond, which is where we lose track and then we end up with people here illegally.

I've said it loads of times. Our system is being abused by our OWN English people, why we let thousands more foreign nationals in who ( these days ) probably aim to do the same is beyond me.

I think we need to sort this place out before trying to save everyone else.

They say immigration is pumping money into the economy yet we are spending more now on the welfare system than we was 10 years ago. Granted, there may be some good coming from immigration, but this isn't the argument. The argument is the amount of people entering the UK, adding to the strain when we can barely cope with the current situation.


Crime has probably risen despite what the dodgy statistics tell you.

Basically we are going round and round in circles because no one has the bollocks in Parliament to say " this needs to change, this is what we're going to do ".

[b0t13]

They ( Current Doctors ) were from times when majority of foreign people did genuinely want to leave their homes for education in the UK.

A lot of them now know we are a soft touch. They illegally enter England, then just claim they will be killed and get granted Asylum.
Then they abscond, which is where we lose track and then we end up with people here illegally.

I've said it loads of times. Our system is being abused by our OWN English people, why we let thousands more foreign nationals in who ( these days ) probably aim to do the same is beyond me.

I think we need to sort this place out before trying to save everyone else.

They say immigration is pumping money into the economy yet we are spending more now on the welfare system than we was 10 years ago.
Crime has probably risen despite what the dodgy statistics tell you.

Basically we are going round and round in circles because no one has the bollocks in Parliament to say " this needs to change, this is what we're going to do ".

agreed, and hopefully UKIP will be the party to say enough is enough, the reds,blues,yellow and deffo not green wont help

[stevo67]

One of the main problems that the uk has is lack of investment in young people ie in the manufacturing sector.Too much emphasis has been placed on the banking industry as a generator of wealth,factor into this as well that if someone invents/develops something then they don`t get the funding to get the project started.It ends up with the person selling the invention to another country & the uk then importing it.The type of education we have now does it really give people the skill set to go out into the workplace?

[KamRacing]

the problem is the government wants everyone to be highly skilled. Not all jobs are for the highly skilled and this means whole manufacturing industries have collapsed. People say they deserve top jobs yet companies need people to start from the bottom. China has not prospered on high flyer jobs! Add to this the must-have-it-now consumer culture. People expect a certain lifestyle and demand to be paid accordingly. I know loads of people in manufacturing and all cannot get decent staff. We dont need more graduates. We need a labour workforce in mass numbers and a healthy industry surrounding them.

As for immigration. We as a country do not monitor how many people leave the country. There are no records for people coming over to study who then leave or uk nationals leaving, or people who emigrated and then left.... All we see is a figure of people entering the UK. How can you really justify your thoughts based on one statistic. Yes there are more people in the UK but we have one of the highest birth rates in the western hemisphere!

[Heliosphan]

"The reason for his death is embedded in the ideology of Islam?" Ok, where exactly does it state in any Islamic scripture to take the life of a man not currently engaging in any war-orientated combat?

According to my (admittedly limited) research, none. The verses giving soldiers permission to slay enemies was given as a war-time command and referred to soldiers on the front line.

The scripts also talk about treating prisoners of war humanely, giving them food and shelter and taking responsibility for their well-being- written in a time where brutal slaying of any POWs was seen as the only acceptable practice.

The scriptures also repeatedly talk about respecting and obeying the laws of the land you live in- something extremists choose to ignore and infact completely go against.

I said embedded within Islamism, not Islam.

A core theme of Islamism is Islamic rule (sharia) for any country in which muslims live and, ultimately, unity for all muslims around the world. The perception is that any transgression against muslims is an attack on the global community which is exactly where his mindset comes from. We know this because of the things he said. There's nothing extreme about Islamic law (in terms of the number of willing adherents) but what is extreme is how it is implemented. So the driving force behind Islamism is Islam seeing as Islamic law is it's basis for a future society.

Regarding your other comments, given the involvement of Uk troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, the killing pretty much fits the criteria that you outline. That's why they targetted a soldier. That's why plots have been uncovered where soldiers have been the targets. They are seen as combatants in a war against the muslim 'ummah', which is ongoing.

A true Islamist doesn't view secular law with real validity, that's the whole point. Islamic sharia law is considered the word of God and therefore the ultimate authority.


Death penalty is still a popular flavour with our biggest allies, too .

Not for blasphemy they don't.

[Heliosphan]

Why tar the lot with the same brush. Thats the problem. Should Christians in the UK be seen in the same light as the pastor Terry Jones in the American deep south? No - we see him as a flipping idiot. I dont think you have a clue as to what the Quran is about. Just like the Bible it can be misinterpreted and misused as an ideal for violence and discrimination when in fact its all about the opposite. A lot of attention gets thrown at a few individuals and the masses believe this is the view of all 1.6 million muslims in the uk. Put it into perspective. The whole muslim population is 3% of the uk population. We have 33 million christians. People need to get some sense of perspective over the whole issue. There will always be horrible people in the world and some of them are british muslims. That does not need a rounding up and booting out of these people out the uk. Next we will be saying all paedophile based murders are white middle aged men and they should all be imprisoned, or all truck drivers rape prostitutes...

People complain that things need to change yet sit back and wait for others. Thats not how things work. You want better integration then you need to integrate. If you want less radicalism in the UK on all sides then you need to eliminate the causes and reasons for their silly ideals.

Don't feel left out, I'll be back later when I have more time.

[Jazz]

KamRacing, the voice of educated reason!

Heliosphan- I've got plenty more to say about the points you raise, when I get in this evening I will respond to the above. Seems you have some ill-informed facts about the faith ;)

Ps- You mentioned both islam and islamism regarding the same thing. We will look at both later.

[stinkycheese]

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

This is the reason that religion is retarded. People are taking scriptures from thousands of years ago and and trying to implement them into modern society. Clearly not all Muslims are taking this shit literally any more but they are despised as much as non-believers by a LOT of 'True' Muslims. These people identify as Brothers of Islam before any nationality and that's creating a big problem when the Western world is waging illegitimate wars in their 'homeland'.

[Heliosphan]

@kamracing

You realise that by telling me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about doesn't make it true? Likewise, if I described you as a bleeding-heart liberal apologist it doesn't make it true either. Although, in your case, I suspect it most certainly would be.

I'm explaining the mindset of the murderers. How is that tarring everyone with the same brush? Do you assert that the motivation for this murder was done for reasons other than quite specific religious and political reasons?

How is citing examples of Islamic intolerance tarring everyone with the same brush? Are you going to deny that these things are true? Is it not prudent to want to talk about such things given the rising muslim population?

I asked what you think Islam brings to the table in the Uk, where's your answer?

If you want to engage in debate it is useful if you address what I said, rather than what you think I said.

[Jazz]

Alright, Islam and Islamism. Being such a hot topic in the modern media I thought I would do some digging into the whole thing and try to understand the source of all the controversy. Quite interesting things to find if you have a spare few hours.

The key word we need to consider when discussing religious-attributes is context. Any historian knows that looking at things without the appropriate context is meaningless- We may as well end our research before it has begun.

Indeed the Quran has the mentioned verses which talk about slaying non-believers, murder and crucify etc.. but why such a militant stance? And the second question is, should those verses always transfer literally into the modern world? Some extremists seem to think yes to the latter. Looking at period where Muhammad supposedly received these teachings from above, Arabia was being overrun by powerful tribes of Pagan worshippers with particularly cruel War Lords. Looting, sex-slaves, trafficking, murder and rape would all happen by the powerful tribe leaders and they feared nobody. They were also violently adverse to people who preached in One God and unity and peace for all. This is why they wanted Muhammad dead as his way of life did not line their pockets in the ways they had been used to. The commadments referred to these people as the "Non-believers" and instructed Muhammad and his followers to fight as hard as they could for the just cause and in order to save humanity from the pure chaos, sin and anarchy these Meccan Pagan tribes were rapidly spreading. In that time the militant quotes seem entirely reasonable during these times of war, where believers were slain on sight.. it was kill or be killed, simple. As mentioned, times have changed. You don't implement these old teachings in the modern context (unless you're a dumb-arse extremist in which case you feel you should). If you look at the Jewish and Christian scriptures, you can easily find similar quotes in times of war and adversity. For those times, maybe those instructions were perfectly acceptable, and dare I say in many situations they were badly needed.

Many sources suggest that women were treated worse than animals under the Meccan rule, and when the Quran came out talking about women having certain rights and being as spiritually important as men, that was seen 'at the time' as an absolute outrage. Ok these days maybe not, but then it was something. People say Islam doesn't give women rights. I would actually argue that for it's time, it re-wrote the rule book on giving women importance in the world where they were often spat on and shunned.

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them" - Interesting words to say in 600AD Arabia when women had no social standing what so ever.

""And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women."- again from the Quran.

Outdated by modern standards it may be, but back then women were dancing for joy when this book was revealed.

Islamism is something else entirely. It is a politically driven ideology which has no seal of validity by the religion at all. This term actually came about in the 18th century while Islam itself has been around since 600AD, so its a relatively modern concept in the grand scheme of things, mostly enforced by like-minded individuals who had their own ideas about how the world should be. They want to seperate themselves from the west and have their own independant political voice and identity. You can argue that what the woolwich killers did may have been inspired by a very extreme perspective on Islamism, but to believe the concepts and ideas and execute them in such a way is totally down to the individuals themselves.

[Jazz]

I asked what you think Islam brings to the table in the Uk, where's your answer?
.

What, apart from encouraging respect and love for family, neighbours and elders, giving to charity, taking particular care of orphans, promoting marriage and chastity, encouraging it's followers to educate themselves and seek knowledge, not sinning and being humble, grateful and modest?

Not sure man... maybe a nice Karahi Gosht and naan bread?!

[stinkycheese]

Thanks for making a distinction between those.

Do you think that there is a problem, within the UK, with the amount of people following this more extreme branch of Islamism?
Do you think that the rest of the Muslim population should be doing more to distance themselves from these people?
What do you suggest we do with the Mosques that are openly preaching this stuff?

[stinkycheese]

My Brother the Islamist Documentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LorhdNH1C34

What are people's views on this?

[Jazz]

Thanks for making a distinction between those.

Do you think that there is a problem, within the UK, with the amount of people following this more extreme branch of Islamism?
Do you think that the rest of the Muslim population should be doing more to distance themselves from these people?
What do you suggest we do with the Mosques that are openly preaching this stuff?

I completely agree that there is a growing number of people not looking towards Islam, but towards Extremist- Islamism, they are different things. One looks at the teachings one way, the other an entirely, scarily different one. Yes I'd say its a big problem, but I think instead of burning Mosques down we need to join hands with the liberal Muslims who need support to speak out and attack these rogue elements from within the community.

It shouldn't be us vs Islam, it should be Us & Islam vs Extremist Islamism. If we don't seperate the two we will never solve this problem.


I think the rational Muslims are keeping quiet because they are under fire from all angles tbh. Thats not an excuse for doing nothing but unfortunately thats the way it is right now.

The sooner the media stops blaming them all, the sooner we can actually approach mosques and say "ok look, we know there is a problem, YOU know there is a problem, lets work together and smoke it out."

Any clerics in Mosques who actively preach hatred mus be arrested and dealt with as harshly as posslbe. They are likely reaching out to impressionable youngsters and grooming them to hate which is terrible. Throw the kitchen sink at such people IMO.

Edit- just having a look at that link you posted dude :y:

[Jazz]

What are people's views on this?

Bloody scary tbh... as far removed from other Muslims as I have seen. I'm sure they would be as shocked with this as anyone else.

This is something else entirely.

[stinkycheese]

Bloody scary tbh... as far removed from other Muslims as I have seen. I'm sure they would be as shocked with this as anyone else.

This is something else entirely.

These clerics (is that the correct term?) are preaching this type of stuff to thousands of people. Exponential growth says we are going to have a HUGE problem in the very near future. This kind of thing needs to be stopped ASAP before it blows up. Excuse the pun.

[Jazz]

These clerics (is that the correct term?) are preaching this type of stuff to thousands of people. Exponential growth says we are going to have a HUGE problem in the very near future. This kind of thing needs to be stopped ASAP before it blows up. Excuse the pun.

Agreed. We need to target the extremists on the top who are influencing others. Shocking what the effect could be.

[McGuire86]

You'll never stop the extremists, it's a movement a way of life for them, not a military organisation.

[stinkycheese]

You'll never stop the extremists, it's a movement a way of life for them, not a military organisation.

Probably not, but at the moment we are allowing the extremism to spread whilst giving them housing and healthcare.

[Jazz]

You'll never stop the extremists, it's a movement a way of life for them, not a military organisation.

You're right, but the next generation of domestic extremists will need to be taught by the established extremists currently doing the rounds.

If we can target them from now and have a crack down, maybe it will have a positive effect on the next generation being influenced.

[McGuire86]

Probably not, but at the moment we are allowing the extremism to spread whilst giving them housing and healthcare.

Exactly my point, we cannot all live together in harmony in such high numbers and not expect any repercussions. It's just not worth the innocent lives and baggage it brings.

[KieranHopkins]

Muslims don't cook good food, Indians do

[McGuire86]

You're right, but the next generation of domestic extremists will need to be taught by the established extremists currently doing the rounds.

If we can target them from now and have a crack down, maybe it will have a positive effect on the next generation being influenced.

It's been happening for hundreds if not thousands of years, it will never get better just worsen.

[Jazz]

It's been happening for hundreds if not thousands of years, it will never get better just worsen.

Exactly why I believe we need to engage with Mosques and target the extremists from within their own community. That is something we have not done before.

[McGuire86]

Exactly why I believe we need to engage with Mosques and target the extremists from within their own community. That is something we have not done before.

There's been plenty of times when people outside of Islam have tried to tackle the problem by collaborating with Islamic leaders, not much progress ever happens though. Why ? Because in truth they don't care as much as we do, I mean why would they rat on their own kind ? I'm not saying they all share the same approach but alot do. Muslims are fiercely loyal to each other and they simply wont give up the names of some extremists to help 'us' alot of them would then be living a life of fear if they did that.

[Jazz]

See I don't believe we have done enough on that front. I still think better collaboration and mutual understanding can only be steps in the right direction.

Work with, not against. The latter will always cause more ill-feelings.

[Davyy]

But a good way to get rid of extremists is to get rid of muslims all together. Near on impossible to do, but it should happen..

[simmo]

Liveleak video (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d6d_1358362314)

How anyone can try and impose religious beliefs/laws is beyond me. Christian,jewish,islamic,sikh anything.

[blackie_2k5]

Love to see that happen up here lol

[Jazz]

But a good way to get rid of extremists is to get rid of muslims all together. Near on impossible to do, but it should happen..

So get rid of well over a million people because of what they believe in?

Good call, Adolf.

[simmo]

Tbh ive never been in contact with any extremists from any religion. A few friends are die hard christian and a few deep sikh and muslim but none of them go to the extreme, they all agree you can believe in what you want etc. is it a southern/london thing?

[stevo67]

But a good way to get rid of extremists is to get rid of muslims all together. Near on impossible to do, but it should happen..

Can you ever see that happening?Re-educating people is the key & if people hellbent on terror/extremist views refuse to obey the rules then deport them.:drink:

[Jazz]

Muslims don't cook good food, Indians do

Actually many of the dishes from India are vegetarian for religious reasons.

A lot of the meat dishes we all know and love which are served in 'Indian' restaurants are actually from across the border in Pakistan- a Muslim country.

[Viper]

Muslims don't cook good food, Indians do

Why would your religion affect how good your food is?

[stinkycheese]

Why would your religion affect how good your food is?

That's what he was saying.

[Viper]

That's what he was saying.

Ahhh ok, my bad. I think I read it out of context.

[Davyy]

So get rid of well over a million people because of what they believe in?

Good call, Adolf.

I didn't say kill them..

[weve33]

But we should..

[devilsadvocate]

All this thread has done is make me realise how uneducated, racist, and ignorant some people are.

It makes me laugh how hypocritical most of you are when judging other nationalities or religions. Perhaps some of you so called 'Christians' should have a read about the history of the church over the years, it may make you think twice about it.

[AXracing]

But a good way to get rid of extremists is to get rid of muslims all together. Near on impossible to do, but it should happen..

The thing is many religions lend them self to such radical views. Just look at the dark history of Christianity and you will see what I'm talking about.

It is however not just religions it can be any group really. Just look at the likes of Hitler and Stalin.

I do agree with what other people are saying. Islamic groups as a hole are not doing enough to tackle there own problems and I can understand why people are worried about this.

I also agree that it does appear a little to easy for new mosques to open. I am guessing that people are playing the discrimination card to get these open as some are in what looks to be totally the wrong place as it where and I would have imagined if they went through normal planning there would have been so much objection they would not normally have allowed it to open.

[Davyy]

Just for reference i'm not Christian, hate religion and its uselessness.

[stevo67]

But we should..

You start killing people & you only end up bringing yourself down to their level,2 wrongs don`t make a right.

[blackie_2k5]

I'm catholic but don't follow it, doesnt matter what race or religion you are, if you are taught to believe something then you will act in a way that best supports this

I think the main reason ppl are worried is just how mainly ppl are converting to Islamic belief

Thing most ppl forget is, the are many many more "extremists" about then you may believe, an extremist in most ppl's belief is a terrorist

But it's not! And extremist is someone who will fight and die for their beliefs, the same as those that will fight to keep their country their own, or those in the armed forces, that fight and kill for their country, doesn't matter who you believe and who you fight for, humans are by nature predators and will kill

There is probably about a 50/50 split in the world of ppl who will fight and ppl who don't want to

Only takes a trigger to set it off..look at turkey

[Heliosphan]

Islamism is something else entirely. It is a politically driven ideology which has no seal of validity by the religion at all. This term actually came about in the 18th century while Islam itself has been around since 600AD, so its a relatively modern concept in the grand scheme of things, mostly enforced by like-minded individuals who had their own ideas about how the world should be. They want to seperate themselves from the west and have their own independant political voice and identity. You can argue that what the woolwich killers did may have been inspired by a very extreme perspective on Islamism, but to believe the concepts and ideas and execute them in such a way is totally down to the individuals themselves.

Jazz, are these your words or the words of someone else?

I don't disagree with the definition but it does seem to imply that Islam and Islamism are a disconnect. For instance, 'a politically driven ideology' is slightly inaccurate. Socialism is a political driven ideology, as is conservatism. Islamism is ultimately driven by religion. It is simply a means of bringing Islam into the political sphere on the basis of it being a complete system for life, spiritually, socially and politically. Those who disagree simply prefer the personal and spiritual aspects of the faith as opposed to anything else.

What, apart from encouraging respect and love for family, neighbours and elders, giving to charity, taking particular care of orphans, promoting marriage and chastity, encouraging it's followers to educate themselves and seek knowledge, not sinning and being humble, grateful and modest?!

So nothing that any decent human being would aspire to then.

[AXracing]

The thing is the Koran is ancient text. So much so that the new interpretation is a long way off what the original was. Few people can even read and fewer can understand the original text. In so people have expended on this text and built around it to there own goals. Much of what a modern follower believes has nothing to do on the original text but rather what people have fed them. In so the original religion is a long way off what the currant groups believe. This is why the religion has split in to so many smaller groups and why even what you may call mainstream Islamic groups these days tend to have a lot less to do with Islam then you would think.

[McGuire86]

What's the 'Koran' ?

[Heliosphan]

The thing is the Koran is ancient text. So much so that the new interpretation is a long way off what the original was. Few people can even read and fewer can understand the original text. In so people have expended on this text and built around it to there own goals. Much of what a modern follower believes has nothing to do on the original text but rather what people have fed them. In so the original religion is a long way off what the currant groups believe. This is why the religion has split in to so many smaller groups and why even what you may call mainstream Islamic groups these days tend to have a lot less to do with Islam then you would think.

How is that relevant?

Islamism, in whatever guise, seeks pretty much the same thing, just in varying degrees. So whether we're talking about an ultra-conservative group who take a very literal interpretation of the Qu'ran (like salafism) or a more moderate group who don't, the key premise is the same.

Your last comment sounds like something an Islamic fundamentalist would say.

[Jazz]

Jazz, are these your words or the words of someone else?

.

If you think anything above is pasted please feel free to post my source...

[AXracing]

What's the 'Koran' ?

The Koran is the sacred Book of Islam. on which the religion of more than two hundred millions of Mahommedans is founded, being regarded by them as the immediate word of God. Its also often referred to as Kor,an, Alcoran, Quran. Qur,an, القرآن and many other names.

[McGuire86]

The Koran is the sacred Book of Islam. on which the religion of more than two hundred millions of Mahommedans is founded, being regarded by them as the immediate word of God. Its also often referred to as Kor,an, Alcoran, Quran. Qur,an, القرآن and many other names.

Nice copy and paste ;)

I know what it is, just thought it was called the Qu'ran. Never seen it being written as the Koran before.

[Jazz]

Jazz, are these your words or the words of someone else?

I don't disagree with the definition but it does seem to imply that Islam and Islamism are a disconnect. For instance, 'a politically driven ideology' is slightly inaccurate. Socialism is a political driven ideology, as is conservatism. Islamism is ultimately driven by religion. It is simply a means of bringing Islam into the political sphere on the basis of it being a complete system for life, spiritually, socially and politically. Those who disagree simply prefer the personal and spiritual aspects of the faith as opposed to anything else.

.

I'm sorry but again you're wrong. What you seem to be suggesting is that a politically driven ideology cannot have the basis inspired by religion. I'm sure all of the Middle east would strongly disagree with your short-sighted assumption.

What Islamism does and seeks to do is to take economics, politics and military affairs and combine all into a way of life but and also establishes a base for controlling state power- in fact I would say Islamism relies on it. I would certainly put it as a poltical ideology. This is why it differs from the core religion.

Socialism and Islamism actually share some curiously similar traits in terms of how their views on ideal societies play out, especially regarding the removal of oppressive social heirarchy and equal power-relations in the workplace to maximise occupational autonomy.

So yes they are quite different things, Islam and Islamism. Not distinguishing between them only serves to further highlight your lack of understanding I'm afraid.

[Heliosphan]

I'm sorry but again you're wrong. What you seem to be suggesting is that a politically driven ideology cannot have the basis inspired by religion. I'm sure all of the Middle east would strongly disagree with your short-sighted assumption.

Nope, I’m suggesting the opposite, you just need the cognitive ability to see it.

“it does seem to imply that Islam and Islamism are a disconnect’
That’s me linking the ideology with religion because nowhere in your definition are the two corroborated.

“Islamism is ultimately driven by religion”
That’s me doing it again. That’s me acknowledging an ideology derived and inspired by religion.

[described as] “a politically driven ideology is slightly inaccurate”
I can see why this tripped you up. I probably should have said that the statement wasn’t fully accurate without further citation.

How clear do you want it?

What Islamism does and seeks to do is to take economics, politics and military affairs and combine all into a way of life but and also establishes a base for controlling state power- in fact I would say Islamism relies on it. I would certainly put it as a poltical ideology. This is why it differs from the core religion.

So almost exactly what I said but using different words.

[Jazz]

I wasn't tripped up at all actually.

You previously said that me calling Islamism a politically driven ideology was "slightly inaccurate"... That because it is has a religious basis it cannot be a true political ideology as I first described it. And I am telling you that no, that description is entirely accurate since it incorporates the necessary attributes needed to be called so as stated in my previous post. It has values and structure which allows it to be compared to socialism and conservatism which you yourself cited as proper alternative political ideologies. The key difference is that it has ideas inspired by the religion, and I use the term 'inspired' loosly. It is not, as you say, directly derived from religion- as I said before it is actually an 18th century concept established by a group of leaders with their own ideas about which direction the followers of the faith should go towards. At first you disagree but then your previous post seems to agree with my definition.... Make your mind up.

Your posts appear to be linking Islam and Islamism to each other to the point of them being almost the same thing- well I am telling you no they are not, they are very different concepts on closer inspection despite one 'inspiring' the other. You, like many other people, see the word Islam in the title and automatically assume them to be same thing.

So no not "almost exactly what you said but using different words" at all.

Not to worry though, I'm glad at least you undersand what you're talking about.

[AXracing]

How is that relevant?

Islamism, in whatever guise, seeks pretty much the same thing, just in varying degrees. So whether we're talking about an ultra-conservative group who take a very literal interpretation of the Qu'ran (like salafism) or a more moderate group who don't, the key premise is the same.

Your last comment sounds like something an Islamic fundamentalist would say.

I was trying to show how mankind has taken parts of Islam and formed it in to a political entity amongst other things. Like Jass said just because something may have a similar name and may claim to be of religion it does not change the fact its a modern creation of mankind built on political views and ideology.

[AXracing]

Nice copy and paste ;)

I know what it is, just thought it was called the Qu'ran. Never seen it being written as the Koran before.

Some English speaking Muslims actually do not know a great deal about there religion and will actually try and correct that translation because they do not realise that all the common English translations are actually all as incorrect or as correct as it where as one another. There are something like 18 official translation systems to transliterate Arabic and they all tend to throw up great variety in there end results.

[Jazz]

I was trying to show how mankind has taken parts of Islam and formed it in to a political entity amongst other things. Like Jass said just because something may have a similar name and may claim to be of religion it does not change the fact its a modern creation of mankind built on political views and ideology.

Completely accurate, AXracing.

Fully agree.

[Carlvtr88]

Jazz and Helio....

You guys seem to be having an educated debate about this subject and can voice your beliefs far more eloquently than I can... I'm just a guy with an opinion based on what I see around me.

But.... Isn't this type of thing the reason England is in the situation its in.

Not specifically what you were talking about but because when dealing with problems and /or debate about touchy subjects like this, all these ministers seem to do is sit in a green room seeing who can get one up in a debate over the other person, without really actually seeming to sort anything out at all.

It seems no one in charge is prepared to say, " lets stop wasting time seeing who can express their point in the most politically correct, none offensive way, scrap the paperwork and lets actually do something about this ".

[b0t13]

i think alot of which side of the fence people sit on is based on LIFE experience,

and i bet the ones that are pro-islam without being muslims come from decent backgrounds and whether they admit it or not are just as secluded and out of touch as the MP's, always using the same counter arguments about people being thick and racist,

thats why alot of people in the EDL are dumbasses, because it affects that type in the population the most, but it doesnt mean its ONLY dumbasses that have the same views!

ive found theres a national hatried of muslims culture(not directly religion) from all walks of life in people that have direct dealings with them all the time, not just the rich ones in the suburbs

[Carlvtr88]

i think alot of which side of the fence people sit on is based on LIFE experience,

and i bet the ones that are pro-islam without being muslims come from decent backgrounds and whether they admit it or not are just as secluded and out of touch as the MP's, always using the same counter arguments about people being thick and racist,

thats why alot of people in the EDL are dumbasses, because it affects that type in the population the most, but it doesnt mean its ONLY dumbasses that have the same views!

ive found theres a national hatried of muslims culture(not directly religion) from all walks of life in people that have direct dealings with them all the time, not just the rich ones in the suburbs

I think this rings true. Many areas of Brum are full of immigrants, These areas weren't particularly amazing in the first place, so its almost like the council are just like " aah fuck it, send em all there ". Without realising what they're actually doing to the natives. Then this creates diversion in the community and anger in many people. These native people might not be the most intelligent but they are all ultimately getting at the same point, they are fed up with the mass influx of immigrants.

As for peoples opinions based on their own experiences, I think that's spot on.
Everyone experiences different things so all opinions are based on what people see day in day out.

So by me saying I personally believe that a huge amount of foreign folk don't give a shit / understand the rules of our road, isn't racist. It's just an observation based on the repetitive behaviour of the people Birmingham City Council have housed around me.

[simmo]

See, religion always causes arguments.

[stinkycheese]

On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia :

"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia , to work and eat in Russia , should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia , and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America , England , Holland and France , if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.

[Heliosphan]

I wasn't tripped up at all actually.

You previously said that me calling Islamism a politically driven ideology was "slightly inaccurate"... That because it is has a religious basis it cannot be a true political ideology as I first described it. And I am telling you that no, that description is entirely accurate since it incorporates the necessary attributes needed to be called so as stated in my previous post. It has values and structure which allows it to be compared to socialism and conservatism which you yourself cited as proper alternative political ideologies.

Well it clearly has tripped you up seeing as you're still banging on about it, despite it being followed by a pretty succinct explanation.

You described it as just a 'political ideology', made no reference to how it seeks to meld religion and politics, nothing about its non-secular nature or even that there is a relationship with Islam. What a poor effort by you. It would have been far more of an accurate description to have included these things, but you didn't.

Don't get too hung up over a badly chosen word, you don't win arguments purely on semantics.

The key difference is that it has ideas inspired by the religion, and I use the term 'inspired' loosly. It is not, as you say, directly derived from religion - as I said before it is actually an 18th century concept established by a group of leaders with their own ideas about which direction the followers of the faith should go towards. At first you disagree but then your previous post seems to agree with my definition.... Make your mind up.

Seeing as Islamism is a political ideology and not a religion, how can it not derive from religion when it's basis for law is sharia law?

Moreover, how you term it 'loosely' inspired by religion is completely beyond me when a central theme of Islamism is to bring religious principles into government and society.

[blackie_2k5]

You lads not bored yet?

[latza]

Fuck Islam and fuck Allah the peodophile. Islam has no benefit to the uk, if you can't see this your probably a spastic.

No one cares about immigration until it directly effects them. At that point it's to late

[Viper]

if you can't see this your probably a spastic.

Try again.

[Ali123]

Fuck Islam and fuck Allah the peodophile. Islam has no benefit to the uk, if you can't see this your probably a spastic.

No one cares about immigration until it directly effects them. At that point it's to late

you narrow minded bellend

[Jazz]

Well it clearly has tripped you up seeing as you're still banging on about it, despite it being followed by a pretty succinct explanation.

You described it as just a 'political ideology', made no reference to how it seeks to meld religion and politics, nothing about its non-secular nature or even that there is a relationship with Islam. What a poor effort by you. It would have been far more of an accurate description to have included these things, but you didn't.

Don't get too hung up over a badly chosen word, you don't win arguments purely on semantics.



Seeing as Islamism is a political ideology and not a religion, how can it not derive from religion when it's basis for law is sharia law?

Moreover, how you term it 'loosely' inspired by religion is completely beyond me when a central theme of Islamism is to bring religious principles into government and society.

I'm running out of ways to explain the same thing again and again.

It is not directly derived in the sense that the concept is man-made and a relatively modern one at that. Religious implementation is a matter of interpretation and Islamism is a particular interpretation, despite it using Islam as a basis of its ideas. Unlike the faith this is not a 'set-in-stone' principle and not a mandatory part of being a Muslim at all. There are many Muslim countries who do not implement this way of thinking at all and would be shocked at many of it's ways.

As I said before, you have to draw a clear distinction between the core faith and the man-made ideology.

[manta]

Fuck Islam and fuck Allah the peodophile. Islam has no benefit to the uk, if you can't see this your probably a spastic.

No one cares about immigration until it directly effects them. At that point it's to late

You seem really intelligent.

Please tell us more, Viper's wet for you.

[latza]

you narrow minded bellend

Your called ali and your from Huddersfield.

That would suggest why you don't agree with my comments so fuck off

[Mochachino]

Your called ali and your from Huddersfield.

That would suggest why you don't agree with my comments so fuck off

You would make a good member of parliment.

[Jazz]

Your called ali and your from Huddersfield.

That would suggest why you don't agree with my comments so fuck off

Fucking lol..!

Can't decide if he is serious or just taking the piss.

[Viper]

Try again.

Your called ali and your from Huddersfield.

I actually expected you to try harder with your second attempt.