106 1.3 Rallye head/Phase 2 VTR Bottom end!

[Carllee10]

Hi ALL, I'm wanting to put a 1.3 rallye head on a phase 2 vtr bottom end, wondering if theres any threads on this? wanting to know if it would go straight on with a 0.6mm triple layered headgasket and run ok? also ive got the full engine, loom, ecu etc will it run with my single plug vtr ecu and loom or is it best to use the rallye loom? Thanks in Advance

[Carllee10]

Bump ......

[Gandi699]

just fit it with a head gasket from a rallye s2 or 1.6 xsi, the pistons should be ok and give enough clearance even though rallye s2 ones were dished slightly.
It will run with vtr loom and ecu as long as you use everything off the single plug vtr engine but swap in the rallye fuel pressure reg but the map will be all over the place. I've done it and it was ok but not great it would be a whole lot better on the proper rallye management but that needs loom splicing

[MartinObviously]

Hi ALL, I'm wanting to put a 1.3 rallye head on a phase 2 vtr bottom end, wondering if theres any threads on this? wanting to know if it would go straight on with a 0.6mm triple layered headgasket and run ok? also ive got the full engine, loom, ecu etc will it run with my single plug vtr ecu and loom or is it best to use the rallye loom? Thanks in Advance

No advantage, the heads are the same.

There's only 2 types of head, big bearing and small bearing type.

Gains will be next to sod all. For all the work involved... Camming the engine you have will have far better gains.

0.6mm head gasket is a bit on the thin side, you don't really want less than 1.0mm (standard size is 1.7mm).

[axsaxoman]

No advantage, the heads are the same.

There's only 2 types of head, big bearing and small bearing type.

Gains will be next to sod all. For all the work involved... Camming the engine you have will have far better gains.

0.6mm head gasket is a bit on the thin side, you don't really want less than 1.0mm (standard size is 1.7mm).
sorry wrong thin gasket is fine transmits heat better --thats why they went thatway on later engine --if using cam from rallye it will be better than vtr- but yes head is similar

[MartinObviously]

sorry wrong thin gasket is fine transmits heat better --thats why they went thatway on later engine --if using cam from rallye it will be better than vtr- but yes head is similar

Well nothing is "wrong" about what I said to do with the head gasket. :homme:

an MLS gasket will transfer heat better than the OEM fitted fibre shite :y: so the change in material would be an improvement.

[axsaxoman]

just you implied that 0.6 mm is a bit thin -- hich is incorrect -std on jp4 so they are fine

[MartinObviously]

just you implied that 0.6 mm is a bit thin -- hich is incorrect -std on jp4 so they are fine

But an 8 valve bottom end is not a JP4 :homme:

JP4 runs higher compression too iirc.

[axsaxoman]

so what --a gasket is just a seal and thinner is better cos less of the gasket is sybject to cylinder heat --thats why they make them thinner these days--less to compress so more stable and better clamping

[MartinObviously]

so what --a gasket is just a seal and thinner is better cos less of the gasket is sybject to cylinder heat --thats why they make them thinner these days--less to compress so more stable and better clamping

Yes, but you of all people should know that fitting a thinner MLS gasket to the standard crushable gasket affects the compression ratio. which means the MAP on the ECU will be even less than ideal compared to OEM because the knock sensor will have to continually retard the ignition timing.

Also you're bringing the valves closer to the piston tops, maybe not a problem on an OEM engine, but if a head has been skimmed or it has a high lift cam then you're going to run into problems.

[axsaxoman]

Yes, but you of all people should know that fitting a thinner MLS gasket to the standard crushable gasket affects the compression ratio. which means the MAP on the ECU will be even less than ideal compared to OEM because the knock sensor will have to continually retard the ignition timing.

Also you're bringing the valves closer to the piston tops, maybe not a problem on an OEM engine, but if a head has been skimmed or it has a high lift cam then you're going to run into problems.


comp ratio +piston clearance --those have nothing to do with the mechanical suitability of a thinner gasket to engine integrity --just something else you need to consider on engine building ,as for knock sensor retarding the timing --thats what its supposed to on a std ecu if poor fuel or engine det is sensed +drivers not changing down and labouring engine --its like saying why have a lambda probe cos you are making it do something to keep within ecu target values
you cannot on one hand talk about std ecu and ideal map =then think its ok to alter engine spec from std in any way andthe ecu settings will be ideal -- stop waffling and trying to justify your answer

[MartinObviously]

comp ratio +piston clearance --those have nothing to do with the mechanical suitability of a thinner gasket to engine integrity --just something else you need to consider on engine building ,as for knock sensor retarding the timing --thats what its supposed to on a std ecu if poor fuel or engine det is sensed +drivers not changing down and labouring engine --its like saying why have a lambda probe cos you are making it do something to keep within ecu target values
you cannot on one hand talk about std ecu and ideal map =then think its ok to alter engine spec from std in any way andthe ecu settings will be ideal -- stop waffling and trying to justify your answer

It's not designed that way as standard, don't alter it.

I know how a knock sensor works, clearly OP is looking for a bit more power, the scenario you describe by retarding the timing like that REDUCES power. I think in every handbook I've ever read it says that lower octane fuel yields less power for that exact reason. It's not a perfect match for the map on the ECU.

Speaking of waffling, why did you mention a jp4 and say that 0.6mm gasket was fine when we're talking about a 1.6 8v?! then proceeded to say "so what". So what? they're totally different engines, that's what.


Going back to the original post, there's nothing wrong with what I said. End of story. You're just being up yourself.

[Carllee10]

basically i'm going to be running the standard rallye wiring loom and ecu! so would it be fair to say running a standard head gasket or using the 0.6mm one? im not mechanically minded so dont know much tbh, be told to have the head skimmed to 112mm as well would that be ok? how would i know if the head has been skimmed previously? thank you all for your information up to yet. Carl

[Carllee10]

Also where would i be able to buy a 0.6mm headgasket to suit? Many thanks

[MartinObviously]

Vtr head the same as a rallye head? Don't think so

Feel free to list the differences, they are very very similar. apart from the cam.

Would you believe me if I told you the 1.5d block is the same as the 16v?

Nothing Peugeot produce for major parts is "rare".


Also where would i be able to buy a 0.6mm headgasket to suit? Many thanks

I think GMC can supply you one.

[axsaxoman]

basically i'm going to be running the standard rallye wiring loom and ecu! so would it be fair to say running a standard head gasket or using the 0.6mm one? im not mechanically minded so dont know much tbh, be told to have the head skimmed to 112mm as well would that be ok? how would i know if the head has been skimmed previously? thank you all for your information up to yet. Carl

to check what size gasket you can fit you need to do a "dry build"
place clay on piston -oil top surface of clay --fit head with old gasket --time up cam -- hand turn over engine 4 times --remove head and check how thick cly has been squished --if you have 2mm +of clay then you can then work out what size gasket youcan fit to keep that clearance
the oil onthe clay is to stop valve from sticking to it
EG
if you have 4mm clearance and you have a 1.5mm gasket then you know fitting a 0.6mm you will still have 3.1 mm of clearance --so you can even skim head by 1mm to get better comp