1.1 8v safe boost pressures?

[jmclfirst]

i am looking to turbo my std 1.1 8v engine.

my plans for the car isnt about getting the "max" amount of power possible but something that is comfortable and easy to drive with enough power to tow when needs be :)

current mods planned are:

1. Full aftermarket A/C system.
2. Full audio system (car pc running centrafuse auto)
3. Aftermarket ECU (Haltech Elite 2500 DBW) with DBW conversion
4. Turbo install
5. Tow bar and associated wiring for the trailer lights.
6. Full respray from red to metallic blue.

(not in order lol)

any help greatly appreciated :)

[jmclfirst]

should also have added its a 2001 Saxo First

[AXracing]

I have not don't much at all with a 1.1 but I suspect 0.6 bar would be a relatively safe bet to start for standard internals. I probably would fit a slightly thicker repair head gasket. Just the one unless your really planning to up the boost later. I would use the larger clutch from a 1.6 via swapping fly wheel for a 1.6 item or getting your fly wheel modified to take the larger clutch. If they will fit ( think they do ) the 1.6 VTR fuel injectors will give you enough fuel too. Though it would be a lot of money and effort for something that would be no quicker than a stock 1.6.

[axsaxoman]

me -- i would swop ofr 1.6 lunmp to start with --you fitting a tow bar --i.1 has bugger all pulling torque

but as for boost 0.5 bar if controlled correctly will be safe with std internals
same job to do it to a 1.6 --but twice the power for same work

[jmclfirst]

me -- i would swop ofr 1.6 lunmp to start with --you fitting a tow bar --i.1 has bugger all pulling torque

but as for boost 0.5 bar if controlled correctly will be safe with std internals
same job to do it to a 1.6 --but twice the power for same work

so i would be better off doing an engine conversion to a 1.6 16v?

[stevo67]

Sorry to butt in but yes ,on a 1.6 16v you already have 120bhp to start off with.

[jmclfirst]

no need to say sorry mate, your helping me out so thanks, thats what these forums are for :)

[welshpug]

just buy a vts, much less cost involved than converting a base model

[Dany4494]

Cheap insurance though you idiots

[jmclfirst]

i could do that, but what would be the fun in it :)

i like my wee saxo as its the first car i got, and want to keep it, plus i love working on my cars and making them better than they were before, is that no the idea of modification, taking something standard and making it more powerful that it was.

[Gandi699]

i could do that, but what would be the fun in it :)

i like my wee saxo as its the first car i got, and want to keep it, plus i love working on my cars and making them better than they were before, is that no the idea of modification, taking something standard and making it more powerful that it was.

no one can fault you for that but there are more sensible places to start from which is the issue when starting with base models. You will essentially waste so much money bringing the rest of it up to VTR or S spec when you could have just bought the higher spec model to begin with.

[Synister]

Cheap insurance though you idiots

Until you have a light bump at a roundabout one sunny afternoon, you hand over your insurance details. Randomly an inspector decides to come out and assess the damage, notices the big ol' '16V' on the intake manifold and voids your insurance on the spot. No insurance is mandatory 6 points and min. £200 fine.

I learned this the hard way.

[MartinObviously]

Just buy a 1.5D and turbocharge that if you want torque. 15PSi with a GT15 runs nice and strong.

If you're handy with a welder you can do the conversion for a few hundred quid. (I spent £250 on mine keeping the standard fuel pump)

As long as your engine swap to 1.6 (8 or 16v) is declared there shouldn't be any issues.

The 106 can't tow much anyway. You're not supposed to tow more than about 400Kg or so, which on a 1.1 shouldn't be an issue. it's just like driving 5 up and luggage lol

[jokerer]

Oh dear.

Best off to just leave the car standard and buy something better that will tow once your insurance goes down.

Nothing fun about a turbocharged 1.1, you might get a gentle "neat" whispered under someones breath at a car show if you ever took it to one otherwise its completely pointless, sorry to sound harsh but every kid who gets a 1.1 for their first car thinks they can squeeze 200bhp+ with a turbo and pod filter and stickers all over it

[jmclfirst]

Oh dear.

Best off to just leave the car standard and buy something better that will tow once your insurance goes down.

Nothing fun about a turbocharged 1.1, you might get a gentle "neat" whispered under someones breath at a car show if you ever took it to one otherwise its completely pointless, sorry to sound harsh but every kid who gets a 1.1 for their first car thinks they can squeeze 200bhp+ with a turbo and pod filter and stickers all over it

im not looking for 200+BHP, im just looking a project car that i can say "i built that" and be proud of it, its a nice drive, really light steering for a non PS car, i want it to last me a brave while, not just until my insurance is cheap.

im not looking for it tow a massive caravan or anything like that, just powerful enough to tow a big-ish trailer.

[Jizanthapus]

Oh dear.

Best off to just leave the car standard and buy something better that will tow once your insurance goes down.

Nothing fun about a turbocharged 1.1, you might get a gentle "neat" whispered under someones breath at a car show if you ever took it to one otherwise its completely pointless, sorry to sound harsh but every kid who gets a 1.1 for their first car thinks they can squeeze 200bhp+ with a turbo and pod filter and stickers all over it

Unfortunately this is true. I've seen so many threads with people wanting to make their 1.1 faster, but in reality it just isn't worth it. Then OP gets all defensive and starts insulting the people trying to offer their advice because its not what OP wants to hear.

Just 16v it, and if you still think you don't have enough power, start modding that and see where it goes. Or go and build your 1.1 turbo and prove us all wrong! Which never seems to happen...... I wonder why...

[jmclfirst]

im not getting defensive or insulting. thanks for everyones advice, i am aware it would be easier to drop a 16v in and be done with it, maybe turbo it if i wanted more out of it. and yes im aware a turbo'd 1.1 would probably put out the same bhp as a std 16v.

as i said in a previous post, my plans for the car arent max bhp, speed or track times. the car in my head is about comfort and the enjoyment of driving it.i enjoy working on it and making it better.

[Jizanthapus]

im not getting defensive or insulting. thanks for everyones advice, i am aware it would be easier to drop a 16v in and be done with it, maybe turbo it if i wanted more out of it. and yes im aware a turbo'd 1.1 would probably put out the same bhp as a std 16v.

as i said in a previous post, my plans for the car arent max bhp, speed or track times. the car in my head is about comfort and the enjoyment of driving it.i enjoy working on it and making it better.

I know you're not. It's just usually goes that way in threads like this.

What I'm trying to say is you might aswell put the work into something worthwhile. Why aim for something mundane?

Aim higher, and you'll be more pleased with the results when you do complete it. I guarantee it.

[DAN_ADRIANFLUX]

Hi,
If you need any help with insurance at all for this type of conversion the please feel free to drop me a line. I'd be only too pleased to help.
Regards,
Dan.

[jmclfirst]

Hi,
If you need any help with insurance at all for this type of conversion the please feel free to drop me a line. I'd be only too pleased to help.
Regards,
Dan.

thanks, is there any age restrictions to be insured through yourselves?

[chinkostu]

Why not a Corsa engine?

[axsaxoman]

Why not a Corsa engine?

same reason as you don,t go out and get a dose of the clap
it won,t be fun and will always be trouble
you want to be different --OK --

[Jizanthapus]

same reason as you don,t go out and get a dose of the clap
it won,t be fun and will always be trouble
you want to be different --OK --

I think he was referencing this thread: http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471123

Edit: Holy shit, didn't realise it was the same guy as this thread!!

[chinkostu]

I think he was referencing this thread: http://www.saxperience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471123

Edit: Holy shit, didn't realise it was the same guy as this thread!!

well spotted ;);)

[Gandi699]

So the corsa engine never happened then?
Like 99.9% of threads about tuning a 1.1 they never come to fruition usually because the OP realises its a huge waste of time and money.
Not being harsh here or anything just saying it how it is, if you are serious about it then do some research on here - a 1.1 has been successfully turbo charged by "Sophia Bush" on here I think it was?

[welshpug]

ive seen a throttle bodied tu1jp, std bottom end, cam and valvetrain upgraded, headwork, satchell/brown inlet, simpson manifold, made over 100 atw and revved to 9.

[DAN_ADRIANFLUX]

thanks, is there any age restrictions to be insured through yourselves?

Hi,

No we don't have any age restriction.

Kind regards
Dan.

[jmclfirst]

So the corsa engine never happened then?
Like 99.9% of threads about tuning a 1.1 they never come to fruition usually because the OP realises its a huge waste of time and money.
Not being harsh here or anything just saying it how it is, if you are serious about it then do some research on here - a 1.1 has been successfully turbo charged by "Sophia Bush" on here I think it was?

just because its not happened yet, doesnt mean it wont, that thread is for a different shell, phase1 5door...

this thread is for my daily driver....

[Gandi699]

Keep dreaming ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jizanthapus]

just because its not happened yet, doesnt mean it wont

Where's your 1.4 Ecotec engined Saxo then?

[MartinObviously]

just because its not happened yet, doesnt mean it wont, that thread is for a different shell, phase1 5door...

this thread is for my daily driver....

Gav turbocharged the 1.1, just faster than a standard GTi and it didn't last long at all.

a C20LET has been put in a 106 before, getting it done properly a lightly turbocharged 16v would have passed it with ease and for less money.

a K20 engine has ben put in, and a supercharged one. mega bucks and very fast. again not an easy engine to install.


Will it be different? Yes. Will it last, No.



to put this simply, the amount you'd spend doing a proper build, you could simply afford the insurance on a GTi. That should put it into perspective for you :)

[axsaxoman]

ive seen a throttle bodied tu1jp, std bottom end, cam and valvetrain upgraded, headwork, satchell/brown inlet, simpson manifold, made over 100 atw and revved to 9.

you would need a 6speed squential to get best out of that as there will be sod all torque.
remember we used to race a 1294cc ax with REAL 128@wheels in a lighter car -700kgs --so make it 900kgs of a saxo and 30% less power,narrower power band -and "it would n,t pull a drunken man of your sister"-would cost no more to make a larger CC engine to same spec --so if not racing in a 1ltre class --WHY--you got 9K to spend on a g/box to start with and thats why motorcycle eninges in "tin tops" don,t work --sod all torque

always remember that old saying
torque turns wheels --bhp sells engines
or as the yanks would say
"no sustute for cubic inches"

[AXracing]

Its the power band really. Using the terminology torque could be quite misleading as many think of it as manufacture published numbers.

Power as in bhp is a simply the amount of torque as in ftlb you can produce in a given time.

So all else being equal ( that's importuning so I will repeat ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL ) a car with more power will accelerate quicker.

Torque on its own in nothing. Torque only becomes relevant once you quantify it with time. Once you have done this you are talking power.

You can take most production cars and quickly see this for your self. Take the Peugeot 406 for example. It is available with many engine options so it illustrates the point nicely.

LX 1.8 Petrol with 112bhp power and 155nm torque. It does 0-60mph in 10.8 seconds and has a top speed of 119 mph

LX 2.0 HDI with 110bhp power and 250nm torque. It does 0-60mph in 12.1 seconds and has a top speed of 119 mph.

As you can see the HDI model has considerably more torque yet is no quicker. Odd you may think? Well no, its not surprising as maximum torque figures are a complete irrelevance and its the produced power combined with things like weight, drag and gearing that are the deciding factor.

It gets more complicated once you talk power bands. Power band is the range or revs that your engine produces good power.

Like John said if you take a small normally aspirated engine and tune it to the enth degree to get as much power out of it as you can, you will normally end up with a very narrow power band. This will result in the engine producing a nice high peak power band but in the real world you will be using the engine over a wide rev range and you will have to change the gears a lot to keep the engine on the boil. This is why normally aspirated race engines have developed to have a lot of very close gears.

If you are in to motorbikes you will probably be very aware of power bands. Jump on your average sports bike and you will be slamming through the gears. Jump on a touring bike and it all becomes a bit more relaxed and you will stay in gears much longer. This is because the sports bikes tend to have relatively narrow power bands.

[Manu]

Sounds about as realistic as the corsa engine fitting that never happened. I reckon I have seen 14289 threads like this one and only one single turbo 1.1 out of it all.

[Gandi699]

Sounds about as realistic as the corsa engine fitting that never happened. I reckon I have seen 14289 threads like this one and only one single turbo 1.1 out of it all.

exactly its just day dreaming that never comes to fruition. Typical first car stuff that we have probably all been guilty of at some points to varying degrees. I actual wish someone would do what they said

[welshpug]

that tu1 was in a c2 grasstrack car with a 2 speed ma dog box, he got the best out of it for certain.

no need for sequential boxes, not actually allowed for his car anyway

[axsaxoman]

that tu1 was in a c2 grasstrack car with a 2 speed ma dog box, he got the best out of it for certain.

no need for sequential boxes, not actually allowed for his car anyway

yes grasstrack is diff as they only really use the one gear and want lots of rpm so they don,t have to change up ,then down again every lap ,
but his car is not so specialised --so what i said stands

[axsaxoman]

Its the power band really. Using the terminology torque could be quite misleading as many think of it as manufacture published numbers.

Power as in bhp is a simply the amount of torque as in ftlb you can produce in a given time.

So all else being equal ( that's importuning so I will repeat ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL ) a car with more power will accelerate quicker.

Torque on its own in nothing. Torque only becomes relevant once you quantify it with time. Once you have done this you are talking power.

You can take most production cars and quickly see this for your self. Take the Peugeot 406 for example. It is available with many engine options so it illustrates the point nicely.

LX 1.8 Petrol with 112bhp power and 155nm torque. It does 0-60mph in 10.8 seconds and has a top speed of 119 mph

LX 2.0 HDI with 110bhp power and 250nm torque. It does 0-60mph in 12.1 seconds and has a top speed of 119 mph.

As you can see the HDI model has considerably more torque yet is no quicker. Odd you may think? Well no, its not surprising as maximum torque figures are a complete irrelevance and its the produced power combined with things like weight, drag and gearing that are the deciding factor.

It gets more complicated once you talk power bands. Power band is the range or revs that your engine produces good power.

Like John said if you take a small normally aspirated engine and tune it to the enth degree to get as much power out of it as you can, you will normally end up with a very narrow power band. This will result in the engine producing a nice high peak power band but in the real world you will be using the engine over a wide rev range and you will have to change the gears a lot to keep the engine on the boil. This is why normally aspirated race engines have developed to have a lot of very close gears.

If you are in to motorbikes you will probably be very aware of power bands. Jump on your average sports bike and you will be slamming through the gears. Jump on a touring bike and it all becomes a bit more relaxed and you will stay in gears much longer. This is because the sports bikes tend to have relatively narrow power bands.
Iunderstand what you are trying to say
BUT --as torque is the only real reading you measure and power(bhp) is a calculation of toque x rpm --then torque is what mattersfor a given rpm --and comparing an "oil burner with a petrol is hardly a good comaprison -the geating on the diesel will be so high for economy that it would make more speed probably if geared for that and not economy.
on the road the HDI will be quicker for overtaking where its big wedge of torque in the middle will win

[MartinObviously]

Iunderstand what you are trying to say
BUT --as torque is the only real reading you measure and power(bhp) is a calculation of toque x rpm --then torque is what mattersfor a given rpm --and comparing an "oil burner with a petrol is hardly a good comaprison -the geating on the diesel will be so high for economy that it would make more speed probably if geared for that and not economy.
on the road the HDI will be quicker for overtaking where its big wedge of torque in the middle will win

Like my Volvo got tanked by a 1.9 Fabia VRS

Then I sailed past it after his 260lb.ft atw peaked at 2000rpm and dropped off lol