Engine cuts out at low revs (sometimes)

[Mossy76]

Broke down a few months ago, engine started spluttering and cut out, wouldn't start again after that, called the rac guy out who said it was the ignition coil, he replaced it and it worked ok, (told him to take it out cause it was £97, went online and order one for £25, the one with the grey connector). This worked ok for a few days, and then it started spluttering again, so I replaced the spark plugs, worked ok again for a few days, started spluttering again, it can work ok for days and then some days it happens about 5 times, each time I have to turn the ignition off and back on again. Any ideas? I've looked under the hood at night and can see no sparks or arcs over the coil or wires, I didn't gap the spark plugs, they are ngr with. 9mm gap as standard. I did break the connection to the airbox and have ducktaped this back together (I know)

Hoping somebody can help with this
Thanks
Neil

Ps is a saxo 1.1 2002, same as the 106 from what I've read?

[Mossy76]

I took a video of the engine spluttering and posted it on YouTube
https://youtu.be/9vd0KwYUa9A

[CactusJack]

Maybe the Idle control Valve could be the problem ?

[Mossy76]

Looking into the icv, found a few promising posts on it, i'm check it this weekend and meet you know. Thanks for the advice.

[CactusJack]

No problem, hope it works out for you :y:

[Mossy76]

only just had chance to look into this further.
I've removed the ICV, cleaned it and the carb with carb cleaner, removed the induction coil and checked the sparkplugs, replaced the MAP sensor with new one from Euro car parts, £18.50 , and the issue is still happening.

I have not as yet replaced the ICV and i'm assuming if anybody reads this that's what they'll say, but can anyone tell me if there is a way I can test if it is the ICV before I spend another £20.

did try to start the car with the ICV wires disconnected and the car wouldn't even start, so this suggests that it is working to some extent, doesn't it?

any help would be most appreciated.
thanks again
neil

[Mossy76]

side note, can anybody tell me what the wire is with the black block at the end that connects to the right hand induction coil fixing, I assume its an earth but i'm not sure?

[Spendyrx]

Maybe try unplug map sensor and see if that makes a difference, if there's no noticeable difference then it could be that!

[Mossy76]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4zVsjgDNv8pemd5Z240VWRPVzQ

[Mossy76]

Maybe try unplug map sensor and see if that makes a difference, if there's no noticeable difference then it could be that!

tried this earlier on and the fan kicked in and wouldn't turn off? just tried it again with the new MAP and it doesn't make a difference. this time the fan didn't kick in though?

[Mossy76]

well I've ordered an ICV, should be here Thursday, I'll let you know how I get on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-SAXO-1-1-PETROL-1996-2003-IDLE-AIR-CONTROL-VALVE-STEPPER-MOTOR-/121863373613?hash=item1c5f9f832d:g:l~kAAOSwL7VWlNx ~
thanks
neil

ps still curious about this "side note, can anybody tell me what the wire is with the black block at the end that connects to the right hand induction coil fixing, I assume its an earth but i'm not sure? "

[Chipwizards]

ps still curious about this "side note, can anybody tell me what the wire is with the black block at the end that connects to the right hand induction coil fixing, I assume its an earth but i'm not sure? "

It's a radio interference suppressor.

[Mossy76]

It's a radio interference suppressor.

found this http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/106-31/coil-pack-earth-connector-21087/
also any google search for FACON 2022 2.2uF brings these up but not sure where to go to buy one of these, need to look into this further.

thanks again chipwizard :)

[Chipwizards]

It doesn't affect the running in any way. It's only a capacitor.

[Mossy76]

Well I just fitted the new ICV and its worse than ever now, it wont idle at all now, at least before it spluttered a bit and tried to recover, now it doesn't even do that, if I don't rev it, it dies.

obvious thing is the new ICV doesn't work, but not sure I can send it back unless I know for certain.

I 'reset' the ICV with 6 turns of the key and started it on the 7th. is there anything I need to do after fitting this or anything else I could check before trying to sending it back?

thanks
neil

[axsaxoman]

doubt its the new valve
whay vltage on tps at idle ? is that too open and disengaging ICV --cos it thinks its on light cruise --voltage should no more than 0.65v--you know when on right wires cos it will go to near 5 volts at full throttle

[Saxvtsdan]

It's been cammed ;)


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[axsaxoman]

measure manifold pressure at ilde if it is bouncing up and down and lower than 400mb thats your porblem --to wild for std ecu without mods

[Mossy76]

I'm going to test the tps later today, I've looked into this and think I should be ok with it (just annoyed I cant get at the tps wires, grrrr) but I'm not sure how I would measure the manifold pressure, do I need to take this to the garage for this or is this something I can do?
thanks again
neil

[Mossy76]

tested the TPS, 5 volts going in which is ok, but when I tested the return values they were .64 v at idle and 3.8v at full revs;

From what I've read shouldn't this be at around 4.6v at full revs?
and would this affect the car at idle (I'm thinking no as the idle voltage looks ok)

thanks
neil

ps. I've ordered a new temperature sensor should be here today, i'll let you know how I get on.

[Mossy76]

Fitted the new temperature sensor, still not working.

:(

[Nimix]

I have the exact same issue in my 106 Gti, changed all sensors etc. but to no avail..
Next step is to get the injectors checked and another set of sparkplugs

Mine is cammed and mapped

Sendt fra min SM-G920F med Tapatalk

[Mossy76]

not sure if this was a stupid thing to do, but I tightened the throttle cable to set the revs at around 2k, car idled fine then (I know :( )
tried to tried it but it still struggles to go anywhere unless I rev the arse off it and then it very very sluggish.
does this mean its not an idle issue and that the idle is a red herring?

anyway I should be able to get it to the garage and i'll let you know what they come back with.
thanks for you help and advice it is much appreciated.
neil

[Chipwizards]

not sure if this was a stupid thing to do, but I tightened the throttle cable to set the revs at around 2k, car idled fine then (I know :( )
tried to tried it but it still struggles to go anywhere unless I rev the arse off it and then it very very sluggish.
does this mean its not an idle issue and that the idle is a red herring?

anyway I should be able to get it to the garage and i'll let you know what they come back with.
thanks for you help and advice it is much appreciated.
neil

You should not under any circumstances try to increase the idle that way.
You shouldn't even adjust the idle stop screw.
Connect a diagnostic tool and read the values.
Check the fuel pressure.
Check the manifold pressure.
Check the ignition timing.
Check the fuel mixture.

What is your exact spec and when did the problem start?

[Chipwizards]

Just watched your video.

It's missing it's tits off!
Check the coil and plugs.
Check your compressions/do a cylinder leakage test.
Check your injectors.
Check you haven't got an intake manifold to head joint leak.

[Mossy76]

Thanks chip, I've changed the induction coil, which did resolve the issue (car cutting out when in low revs) few days later the same issue appeared, checked online and someone mentioned that after changing the coil you shold also change your plugs.
did this, seemed to work ok for a few days.
then last week, its just really started to die every time the car dropped below 1500 revs.
that's when I started to read up on it more.
so I changed the ICV
then changed the MAP
then the Temperature sensor

in regards to checking the compression of the cylinders, the injectors and the possibility of a manifold leak, i wouldn't know where to begin so I think I'll let the garage tell me.

i'll let you know how i get on
thanks again
neil

[Nimix]

Like I said, I've changed everything except injectors.

I toke the intake apart to make sure everything was properly tight and sealed, but to no avail.

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[Mossy76]

after changing the induction coil, ICV, MAp sensor, spark plugs and the temp sensor, I ended up taking it to a garage, he replaced the ebay induction coil I had with a bosch one and its been working ok for over 2 months now.

if i'd have bought a 'better' induction coil from the start I could have avoided all the other time and money, grrrr!

thanks for all you comments and time with this issue
neil

[BUMMERS]

Nice one for coming back and updating us. Always good to know the result.

I know with the 206xsi you have to make sure you use a decent coil otherwise you can fry the ECU, something to do with back interference.