BMW K1200RS Throttle bodies on VTS [Archive] - Saxperience

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 08:09

Hi All,

Last year on an austrian "gumtree" page a set of BMW K1200RS throttle bodies was inserted, including the hand-made intake manifold (which matches the 16v head) and an airbox. The good man had this on his 16V powered AX GTi, but found it noisy (this is the main reason why I love S1600 cars, or cars with DCOE - Escort MkII RS, LADA VFTS etc) - and the car was a bit hungier with this kit (this is normal I think, his engine was running a bit rich wihtout a standalone ECU). So he decided to sell this kit. And I bought it :)

Yesterday I decided to repair my upper engine mount as the head of the bolt broke again (why?does anyone had this problem? It was a steel bolt, I think hardness 8.8) so the engine was basically on the chassis and rattled everything like a Gp.A or WRC car (not really funny at normal driving).
I removed also the original intake of the car, in order to get a clean, but I had the throttle bodies in my room, so tried them on my engine. Why not? ;)
Today (when no rainstorms come again LOL) I put the engine mount back, and maybe will let the throttle bodies on the engine.
The main reason of my worrying is the too long gas (throttle) cable. Does someone have any idea how to make this shorter (for example making loops) without cutting?

Thanks for all ideas and advices

Kind regards from Hungary

Spendyrx

10th April 2016, 08:30

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 08:37

these are the pics made yesterday

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 08:41

A bit hard without a pic but normally the single cam engines have a little clip on the intake manifold that pulls off, you then pull the throttle cable tight and put the clip back in.
As for your mount bolt, maybe it was just old! Replace it with a brand new one and keep an eye on it!
I'm not that familiar with the twin cams so that's about the best I can help you with.

Well, the bolt broke two times in a year. I have never heard such a failure. I was thinking on this, maybe the mount itself (I believe its filled with oil, damper fluid, vodka, coffee arabica or something similar) is too "weak" and at heavy engine movements when this ends (mean the mount stops moving the engine) this way is such "long" that the braking down forces the head of the bolt and it breaks sooner or later. I get a new 10.9 hardened bolt from a friend, will see how it works...

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 09:04

The cable is very long. It comes from behind the engine, makes a turn above the timing belt, and goes it´s way towards intake, and the factory throttle valve. It has also a clips, to make it tight, but in this case I have the throttle valves behind the engine and the cable is at least 60 cm too long.
Will go out and make a pic.

Chipwizards

10th April 2016, 09:50

just cut the nipple off the end and pull the inner cable through quite a long way (but not all the way out).
Then cut the outer to the length you need and 'trim' the end so it's nice and square again.
Push the inner back through (from the pedal end) and install it where it's going to go then trim most of the excess length and fit a high quality 'solderless nipple' of the correct diameter to fit your throttle cable quadrant (the pulley bit).

Make sure you leave enough length to allow lots of engine movement and also give clearance for your air filter etc.

To get decent performance you will need trumpets as long as it is possible to fit in the space you have or you will have very poor torque and the car will be slower than stock.

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 11:03

A friend just called me that he has a very good hardened bolt for my mount, but he also offered to make the bore (and the thread) bigger, its I think an M8 bolt, maybe we could make it M10, and there is still plenty of material left, so I don´t think it will raise out. But will see. Originally I wanted to let the engine run today, but I think it won´t be possible. At least I will take now my bicycle and bring the engine mount to this guy :)

Throttle bodies: somehow I want to avoid to cut the throttle cable, because if I want to put back the original throttle part, I have to replace this too, and I don´t know how complicated is it, to get out of the chassis. But, if there´s no other way, I will do it. I wanted to mount the airbox the good man made for the throttle bodies, but I have an aircon in the car (the AX had no, of course) and the aluminium lines just disappear there (towards aircon unit under the dashboard) , so they´re in the way, and there is no real place for this airbox. But, these trumpets (with matching filters on them - Pipercross or similar) could be assembled. I will measure the place between end of the bodies and chassis, which lenght is still OK (including the movements of the engine when runs).
As a matter of fact, I don´t wait too much increasing of performance, it´s still enough if the throttle reaction of the engine is much better (and the cool sound of course), but I don´t really want a poorer power / torque :wall: than standard.

Spendyrx

10th April 2016, 18:23

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 19:08

So judging by the pics, the first pic on the left is the stock throttle then no.2 in the middle is the start of the throttles going on then the third on the right being all 4 throttles in position right? I am right in saying the there's 4 throttles/butterflies then the throttle cable runs from the centre (ish) of the 4! Just a thought, what if you get a rough measurement of the length of the cable and see if you can match the same length of cable on eBay! If you can't find anything on throttle cable the maybe try bicycle brake cable. Then just either cable tie it neatly across the bay or even better if you have some spare bolt holes get some nice thin metal, curl it up and drill holes and run it through that :)
Strange with your bolt but if your mate can tap a thread a size bigger and put a stronger bolt in I'd definitely give that a try first. They fill the mount with ferrets cum by the way :D

So, got a very good bolt, original, M8, it must be OK he told me, I believe him. He so the engine mount and had the opinion an M10 wouldn´t survive as the housing around the thread is too thin. The engine mount is fixed now, the engine came to its origo position.
Yes, the pics are right, the left one is with the dismounted stock throttle with that vacuum cable (?) coming up behind the alternator and behind the housing of the cambelt (what is this?), the second one is the start of the throttles, and the third is the throttle kit on the engine (without the engine mount´s aluminium t would "drive" the stock throttle cable through clips to be tight enough, and would lead it so to the "wheel" of the throttle axle (which basically turns all the 4 valves), I could avoid tailoring the factory one?

So, the so called "tongue" of the mount, which has 4 torx headed M10 bolts:
I was happy till I mounted the engine holder back, and tried to put the throttle bodies back on their beginning (the black tubes on the alu plate). At the cylinder right near the cambelt the throttle body cannot be put on its tube as the torx bolt (but also the edge of the holder tongue) is in the way. Thats bad. Next weekend (tomorrow I travel to Vienna) I try to fix all the bodies with those tubes and to slide this all on the holder plate from upwards. from behind I can do this only with 3 cylinders as that bolt and the alu tongue are not OK :wall:
I calles the man, he told me he had only 3 torx bolts assembled as the fourth was in fact in way, but he could put it all onto the head. Asked him to send some pics, I hope I will be more "expert". In worst case I have to chop off the edge (including the hole for the bolt) of this tongue. I dont know, if it will be stiff enough to hold the engine with 3 bolts, this is to be discussed.

The next problem point is the positioning of trumpets or turning the custom made airbox by approx 30° towards engine. As there is no place for a standing position thanks to the aircon lines ;)

SaxoVTSHUN

10th April 2016, 19:33

"and the third is the throttle kit on the engine (without the engine mount´s aluminium t would "drive" the stock throttle cable through clips to be tight enough, and would lead it so to the "wheel" of the throttle axle (which basically turns all the 4 valves), I could avoid tailoring the factory one?"

My cat jumped on the laptop and some parts of the sentences disappeared, just saw now :clapping: Thanks, Pearl:y:

Yes, the third pic is with the throttle kit on the cylinder head. The engine mount´s alu "tongue" was not there at that time - see above, what was the problem when I bolted this back and wanted to put the throttle bodies on their place again.
So, You mean, I had to lead the cable through alu / metal clips, to ensure a right tightness and this would reach the "Wheel" on the axle of throttle bodies without tailoring, it means in factory length?

axsaxoman

11th April 2016, 07:33

you have a standard factory fit cable --when you buy a replacement cable for a saxo vts it comes in bits with a user fitted "trunnion" --so using that kit you can shorten the cable to what ever you wish to make it run the way you want it to

yes it is not the first time i have seen saxo vts engine mountings modified to 3 bolts --and if done correctly is not a problem .
your engine mounting bolt --that is a common problem --the reason is that the threads do not start at top of the mounting .
when new these bolts are fitted with liquid thread lock which makes up the space around the shank of the bolt so there is not this weak point at top of bolt where it is not supported..
I am guessing you have used fully threaded bolt and not one with a blank shank for half its length --and not the genuine unit --probably a chineese crappy quality one
best solution if it still keeps happening is to change mounting for a vibra technics unit which has a 12mm bolt a nd is a supporting type mounting not a hanging type

SaxoVTSHUN

11th April 2016, 14:03

Yes, You have absolutely right, it was fully threaded, however about the quality I cannot say too much. It was previously in a Mondeo maybe, so it was an automotive bolt, not found elsewhere in the garden ;)
This one I got in the big hurry is also fully threaded but it´s harder, probably will keep for a while. But, earthly said, this is the end of this mount when the bolt intends to break again. I will fit either the performance mount, You mentioned, or, there is a guy in the surroundings, who makes different mounts for rally cars in different degrees of hardness. He also offered me to make a better lower engine mount usinng the factory bracket, in order to avoid the front / back engine movements at revving, shifting etc. I don´t know too much about that system (I mean the upper mount) , if it is a suspended or a holder type. This factory solution seems to be not very OK, especially because on the engine side there are 4 pcs of M10 Bolts, and on the other side that small M8 alone....

I couldn´t start the car if the rattling is away, I think so. Well, this chopped mount with three bolts should be an interesting solution, as a matter of fact, I don´t really like to weaken things (especially weight holding parts) which are engineered by people who were thinking over the whole using of a vehicle. But, in this case, I have no other chance. Maybe I will try to fit the complete ITB kit from upwards to downwards (sliding down paralell the assembly plate). If it doesn´t work, it´s hi time for the flex... :clapping:
I thought just to chop off as less as possible, as the part is still keeping the weight (and keeps back of course also the torsion forces) without bolt on a big surface. The luck is maybe, that those forces (vectors) are towards chassis are bigger, it means, I weaken the part on the less "used" side.

SaxoVTSHUN

11th April 2016, 14:06

Cable: if I go to one of our OEM / aftermarket parts dealer, I get a cable without a pre-assembled cylinder on its end? If its so, that this small piece (fits into the hole of the axle wheel of the ITB kit) can be assembled by me, I could really tailor the cable (and its housing) for the correct length I need.
The only thing I wrote that, because I don´t really want to cut a factory Citroen cable, which is in immaculate condition.

Spendyrx

11th April 2016, 16:26

If you don't want to cut and paste you could just spread the length of that original cable around the engine bay and then make sure there's enough to cover that last little bit. If I could post a pic i could explain better!
As long as the outer casing doesn't pull straight e.g with the use of clips/cable ties you can make the length shorter by sending it all the way around the engine bay before coming to the point where it has to go to the throttle!

SaxoVTSHUN

11th April 2016, 17:20

The ITB kit has a frame and a leading tube with a longitudinal cut, this is for taking the cable to its fixing point. As I saw I have to make this longer to make the cable a bit stuffer, but as I see there's a big difference in length (what I need and what I have) so this engine bay story seems to be a neccessary step. Now I'm in Austria and the car is in HU as I came with the company van. I asked the man to send me all his photos and vids about the built-in position of these throttles, as I don't wanna have massive place (airbox, trumpets) and mounting (sensors, vacuum cables...) problems. The car must be reliable, this is not a trackday toy, so I don't wanna any breakdowns in the middle of the night, on the motorway etc ;) It is also important because my quattro's engine is being built and the pug 205 gti is also not ready yet (she is a real scrapping survivor) , so the Saxo is the only sign of mobility in these days :)

Spendyrx

11th April 2016, 19:47

Just remember to not kink the outer casing, I know it's common sense but some people would just put 90 degree bends in and wonder why the throttles not returning ;)

SaxoVTSHUN

12th April 2016, 06:55

Of course not, it must have a round shaped bend, angles like 90° won´t work.
Maybe I could lead it to the right side of the chassis, from that point back behind the engine and then upwards into the throttles.
As a matter of fact this is a very interesting project, however I have to think over how I will use the idle run valve (I think there´s no way as it has a bypass near the original throttle valve in that Solex housing). I have aircon, usually at those small cars and engines the idle is a bit higher when the compressor of the aircon is on. As I will have the ready-set idle (screw near the axle of the throttle bodies) I won´t have such a help like the idle valve. In this case maybe I have to give gas when standing at the red or in the traffic jam. It´s not always easy to construct something completely different and to adopt it into a factory surrounding.

axsaxoman

12th April 2016, 07:41

depending how much space you need and your engineering facilitites--you could machine down the fourth mounting bracket area and convert fixing bolt to a countersunk type --so keeping it in use but thinner --this is what the "AX sport " did when the facotry fitted twin dcoe type carbs many moons ago

SaxoVTSHUN

12th April 2016, 08:11

You mean that construction on my sketch? The figure of the M10 bolts is not exact as in reality they build a parallelogram, not here, but I was in hurry. :oops:

Spendyrx

13th April 2016, 05:19

You mean that construction on my sketch? The figure of the M10 bolts is not exact as in reality they build a parallelogram, not here, but I was in hurry. :oops:

I think axsaxoman means the 4th bolt on your throttles! Basically your bolt/stud is protruding into the area of the a/c ally pipe meaning you can't get your new throttles to fit without removing the pipe right?
What axsaxoman is getting at is to remove the stud and replace it with a countersunk bolt! (a bolt that'll sit flush to the manifold housing mount)

SaxoVTSHUN

13th April 2016, 05:28

Not really ;) The base plate of the throttle kit has countersunk type bolts. It is itself the 4th throttle which meets the bolt (M10 size) of the aluminium engine mount plate (you know the die-cast with fou bolts behind the engine). The a/c pipes are in an upper part of the chassis, they will be in the way of the airbox, but I will find a solution for that. I just was thinking of how to save all the four bolts of the mount, but, as it was mentioned, there are cars with 3 bolts and it works. I just want to avoid overloading a weight holder element.
Yesterday I got some pictures from the man which were taken about the built-in position of the throttle bodies. Will post them soon.

SaxoVTSHUN

13th April 2016, 05:49

These are the pictures. I see that there is a missing bolt on the engine mount, however I don´t know if this to be the mount of the Saxo. I believe, as the AX GTi has probably a different one (never seen). The pictures show how this kit was installed on the 16v engine in an AX GTi.
Which is interesting, that the TPS (the elder "round type" - my car has a newer one similar to the Pug 206 CC for example) is assembled on the other end of the throttle bodies (cambelt side). I´m curious about, that my cables will allow this distance (originally my TPS is mounted on the master brake cylinder side in the engine bay).

axsaxoman

13th April 2016, 07:43

You mean that construction on my sketch? The figure of the M10 bolts is not exact as in reality they build a parallelogram, not here, but I was in hurry. :oops:

correct

SaxoVTSHUN

16th April 2016, 07:39

I´m at home again, this weekend the weather will be fine so I hope to finish this story with the shortened mount and will be able to put the throttle bodies on the engine and start it ;)

Spendyrx

16th April 2016, 08:03

Good luck hopefully with a bit of planning it'll come together nicely :)

SaxoVTSHUN

16th April 2016, 13:51

So, I'm at the car again. As I see it's not enough to make slim or chop the edge of the upper part better said the upper half of the engine mount. I believe the under half's (which is bolted on the engine block itself) same edge is a bit also in the way. I use the newer type TPS and it's bigger than the round shaped one. So the die-cast mount is also in a bit in way for the connector (bottom of TPS) :hug: not so easy at least. Will make some shots right now.
BTW if I bolt off the lower half of the mount from the engine block, what's with engine oil? Or these three (?) mounts have just bores not going through?

SaxoVTSHUN

16th April 2016, 15:54

I came in as it seems we will get a pretty thunderstorm. Thanks :)
Tomorrow I will cut of the edge of the upper part of the mount.
The TPS is avaible to assemble turned by 180 ° (connector is up) but if that way is OK....the turning direction by the throttle axle is the same. I will have trouble with vacuum. I need one for the fuel bridge, one for my break servo (!) and one for the ECU (?) at least this last one is the pipe coming up behind the camblet cover and going into the factory intake. I see its coming from under the ECU.
The brother of my gf was right here, he supposed to make a central vacuum chamber ( a box with one inlet from my custom copper pipe (its already on the throttle bodies and will get the MAP sensor on one end and has a nipple on the other end, but it´s only one, and I need three...) and three outs for those abovementioned gadgets.
This can be made of any plastic box important is to be very well sealed, to be able making vaccum for my sensors (and my brake servo!).
I tested the cable group of the TPS, inlet air temp and the idle run valve, these are long enough. The idle valve will be useless in our case as I see.... and there´s no place to build in.

SaxoVTSHUN

16th April 2016, 16:04

And these are the pics. The TPS on the second one is in the normal position, I`m afraid so I won´t have enough place even if I cut off the edge of the upper part of the engine mount. (the connector is too low, this type of TPS is longer than the Magneti Marelli - the round - one)

SaxoVTSHUN

16th April 2016, 16:05

The pics....

SaxoVTSHUN

17th April 2016, 18:24

Temporary I hanged on vacuum lines for the brake servo, fuel pressure regulator etc...AND STARTED THE CAR :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
The idle is at about 1600 RPM :) and idles like an S1600 or a WRC so its has to be fined, and all the vacuum etc must be assembled correctly.
And I still have no throttle cable, but runs ;) and smokes black, so the fuel mixture is very rich. I made a short vid, will put on youtube.

axsaxoman

18th April 2016, 07:40

forget the vacum connection to fuel reg --not important --you can map around that --only purpose is to lower fuel pressure on over run .
take servo conection from ONE body only and block all others up

with t/bodies and stand alone you can do your load mapping tps /rpm --not rpm/map--don,t need to use map sensor --unless its boosted +hen there is no need for t/bodies anyway

SaxoVTSHUN

18th April 2016, 12:41

Well, I wanted to put all the factory connections on their place that the check engine light won´t say hello :)
I still don´t know, what is that vacuum pipeline which is coming from the upper half of the factory intake manifold, goes down near the cambelt housing, turns back towards chassis and disappears under the ECU.
I will make a stronger vacuum box for the brake servo, it must be also esthetically OK, don´t like ad-hoc vacuum pipes in an engine bay.
Somehow I have to set the idle back to the normal level, and I have to stop this black smoking too.
At the moment I run the factory IAW / Marelli ECU (the car is March 2001 so it´s the later one, with Euro III emission class), hope the situation will be better also with this (later will buy a standalone one, but first my Audi has to be finished at least).
What do You mean about intake pipes? They have to be as long as possible or else I won´t have the torque I need. However, if I make them straight long, I will have only place for four smaller air filters (like on motorbikes).
Do I make something wrong, if after, let´s say (din´t measured yet) 15 cms I turn those pipes upwards, and maybe I lead them into a common airbox? I could use in this case only one air filter (for example a piper) instead of four. I will make a small sketch about my idea.
Thanks in advance.... :clapping::p

Spendyrx

18th April 2016, 20:28

Think the pipe that goes under ecu may be a breather, looks like it goes around the engine covers and over to the throttle body from what I can see on Google.
As for the black smoke, would it be something to do with maf sensor? I had a mr2 turbo and I hit a pothole and the maf managed to unclip it's self, it ran like a bag of poo and pumped black smoke out the back!

SaxoVTSHUN

19th April 2016, 06:12

As a matter of fact, I just couldn´t wait and was very-very curious, so started the car. Yes, that can be, its a breather, however I have no idea where it goes. It disappears approx behind the steel plate of the ECU (towards right fender) and that´s it. It can be of course, that there´s a leak near the map sensor as I just pressed it into a custom made copper pipe which is connected to the throttle bodies in order to produce vacuum. The TPS is just bolt-on, but in my case I have to adjust that, on the factory throttle there´s only one (the original setting) position. Here I have to find a nearly correct one. I was also thinking of bolting the TPS itself back to the factory throttle, to measure the impedance and then bolt it back to the throttle bodies and turni it till I find the similar impedance by a multimeter (measuring equipment). It smokes not so black like a diesel but it can be seen definitely that it´s tooooo rich.
Now I`m in Austria again, so on the weekend it can be done again.
;)

axsaxoman

19th April 2016, 10:23

NOT A CHANCE OF RUNING IT ON STD ECU WITH T/BODIES--not happily anyway
unless you have someone who can totally remap the ecu to run using rpm /tps as load type --the vac signal from one t/body will never be right +joining them all up don,t usually work either you have no idle control system now either --ecu will see lower manifold pressure and think the throttle is more open than it is --so add more fuel
you need stand alone now--assumed you had one already --

SaxoVTSHUN

19th April 2016, 13:18

I will see what some people can here with mapping, I don´t know the limits of the factory ecu, but, basically, it depends only on this. Here are some guys who map serious rally cars, will talk to them, if they take a look on mine.
Stand alone is a must have, I know, will purchase that for this project, which one, don´t know yet. Either DTA or VEMS. Motec is in a horrific price range and basically I don´t think need such a serious one (its neither a V12 twin turbo nor a World Rally Car or an R4 spec Evo)
If it already runs OK (will never run smooth with throttle bodies and standard ecu I know)

Chipwizards

19th April 2016, 16:51

You can map the stock ECU to run throttle bodies IF the throttle plate closed angle is shallow enough for it to get the full angular movement on the TPS. Bike throttles typically close much less perpendicular to the throttle bore than car throttle bodies do. Typically 13 degrees rather than 4 degrees. The ECU then thinks you have maybe 9 degrees of throttle opening when it is closed, hence the black smoke. It will be possible to make it work but it depends whether you can find anyone over there to do it for you. They will absolutely need to emulate it, there's not a chance they will be able to do it using the 'flash and test' method, it's just too far from standard.

The lack of a MAP sensor (just unplug it) won't put the light on but it will log a code. Don't worry about it.

The pipe that disappears behind the ECU tray is for the fuel tank vent, it's an emissions thing so that you fuel tank doesn't vent unburnt HCs to atmosphere, they are drawn into the engine and go through the combustion process. As long as the tank has a safe vent I wouldn't worry about it.

If you do go stand alone, DTA is very hard to beat for the price. Motec is probably the most overrated product in motorsport. For the same money you can have a far superior product from Life Racing, Magneti-Marelli or Pectel (Cosworth) etc. Nobody in top-end motorsport uses Motec ECUs. The only real benefit is when you're at 'club' racing events there will be someone there with a Motec cable and a laptop if you need one because it's popular, despite it's ridiculous price, because people think it's good and literally don't 'know better'.

SaxoVTSHUN

19th April 2016, 19:32

I will ask those guys maybe they will have a solution for this case I know it's already not that typical mapping or chip tuning.
I will disconnect the map sensor if it won't flash the check engine light.
The TPS is now on the cambelt side of the engine, as the original Bosch one (I believe is a big black square one similar to the TPS of bimmer cars) had a fixed position (just like the factory one on the original throttle) the man who made these throttle bodies made an adjustable bracket for the TPS with sliding screw holes, so it can be turned within a wide angle spectrum. It's mounted 180 degrees mirrored (connector is upwards) as I had only this way the place to set it on the axle of the bodies.
I will make a turning test with loosen screws if I can lower the idle a bit. It will be mapped just have to find the right person.
DTA is surely very good, I know a guy who runs his Pug 206RC (GTi 180) on cams, motorsport intake and throttle and dta, he has 250+ hp and very satisfied with it, but thats a rally car with Sadev 75 etc.
Pectel can be -as I saw- another alternative solution, however here comes the serious sport usage in question, as this is not an M-Sport car :) but there are probably also more models by pectel. At home in the old steel company there are some teams, one of them runs 2 Evo9 R4 cars, they run on M800, and they bought now a new Fiesta R5 I didn't see that yet but I suppose she runs on Pectel. But that is a 200+ kEUR car again. Their mechanic told me former to buy a Motec into my S4 B5 as he swears it's the best, but here comes the truth You told that they know only that brand and probably have a program only for mapping a Motec one....
I will buy probably dta as it's the most for the money ( or a pectel one, both are made in Europe, so quality cannot be a problem)
On the weekend the first step will be the safe vacuum for the brake servo (and maybe for the fuel bridge) And the throttle cable. I will disconnect the map sensor and try to set the TPS into an ideal position. Will make photos maybe this can be useful for other people who intend to run a VTS on throttle bodies, however these modifications are always individual with those bike parts.
And I have to find out the length of the intake pipes to avoid a very bad torque characteristics. Either I will curve them up into a base plate for a Pipercross panel or they will get Pipercross socks in pairs.

Chipwizards

20th April 2016, 22:48

In you current setup, does the throttle spindle turn the right way? What I mean is, are you sure the throttle is not telling the ECU it is at 100% and not 0 % throttle?
That would surely cause black smoke!
:-)

SaxoVTSHUN

21st April 2016, 07:15

Yes, I think it turns to the right direction, I will check this on the weekend. But, I don´t know if it´s lucky that the sensor is mounted 180 degrees upwards. I have to see that I have place enough to set it right on its place. I don´t want to weaken the engine mount anymore. Another solution should be to use the other type of TPS (the round one) but its connectors won´t fit to my wiring loom (those have square shaped 3 pin connectors, mine has also 3 pin but with oval formed housing)

Spendyrx

24th April 2016, 16:50

Any luck with your throttles?

SaxoVTSHUN

24th April 2016, 17:45

Hi,

double unluck, first, I was sick all the weekend (begun already in Vienna on Friday with some sore throat and a pretty fever - I replaced the starter of the company Caravelle in a very windy weather, in a t-shirt, of course) and today we got rain with some 80 kph wind, it became extremely cold, and had not too much motivation to get some fever again, as I have to drive back tomorrow). It´s bad because I wanted to test the car today, next weekend is Friday-Saturday National Rally Championship here, and will visit some stages (in case of warmer weather), so only Sunday remains for the project. I planned a lot for this weekend (my 205GTi is still partly in pieces) my this is the real luck. I`m basically never (or only maybe once a year) sick.

Spendyrx

24th April 2016, 20:15

You're not having much luck :(
We've had a nice sunny weekend :)
Tried wiring a car alarm to my shed, no luck as I couldn't find an online installation guide as I don't have one for it :( on the plus side, I got my air compressor motor up and running, it's been dead for over a year so that was a mega plus to the day :) then just finished off by changing pads on wife's punto. Easy day.
Rally sounds good. We used to have a lot of wrc stages where I live but never been to see it. They've moved it 50 miles up to the next city but I'm sure I'll get up there one year!

SaxoVTSHUN

25th April 2016, 04:18

The problem is with Rally of Wales always the weather. Very spectacular and fast forest stages, but I don´t know why, in a terrible weather. The best weather we had on a wrc event was once in Finland (I believe 2010, was above 30 degrees Cels., in Estonia in the harbor we had +36 degrees) Poland 2009 (similar tropical heat) and somehow I had luck, but always avioded a rainy-windy event. The coldest was in Sweden (-33 degrees Cels) maybe 2011, but that´s normal. And here can be easily also -20 so it was not that extreme (however my hot tea became to an ice tea within 10 minutes;). Here I saw the start-up list, there are no wrc cars. only dozens of R5, but I´m not sooo fascinated with them (compared to a WRC car they´re toys). The only luck is that we will surely have historic cars (Escort MkII) and some prototypes (fire-splitting AE86 on its way to be a WRC :P), but basically the boring staff (wrx, evo.....)
Good for You with the weather :) here will be cold all th week, but unfortunately also in Vienna. Hopefully it will be better for the weekend :)

Spendyrx

25th April 2016, 10:22

Haha yeah, always raining here :(
Oof -20 sounds rough, good though as I'd quite like to see rally in the snow!
It's great seeing the wrc cars on the streets, I'm quite lucky as I drive a lorry so I get to see the stars every year! Gonna be tooting to Elfyn Evans when I see him, he's doing well fair play :)
Looks like the nice weather you had last weekend is heading our way according to the news :( nice while it lasted!

SaxoVTSHUN

25th April 2016, 13:23

Here (Vienna) is sunny now, but quite windy. As I saw this arctic airmass is heading towards West, including the rain everywhere, so I suppose You will get this in the mid of the week too. For us at home the forecast told even snow for today, :wacko: but it is normal, it won´t snow I think, maybe 1-2 cm and will melt by tomorrow. The swedish wrc is always good, but, there were years almost without snow, and it was almost a mud / frozen dirt event. Probably the most snow-secure event is the Arctic Rally Lapland, it´s usually before the swedish, however only a national rally, some stars use this as a test for the oncoming wrc event. Unfortunately we don´t have here in Hungary such one, the closests are usually Poland and Germany (and once was in Bulgaria).
I´m very-very curious about your next wrc star, who will be....if Kris Meeke or Elfyn Evans (however, it will be a very-very hard job to beat Seb). Saturday I was really sad when my granny (!) showed me the crash of Jari-Matti in the news. I hoped he will win in Argentina. Not this year, at least....

Spendyrx

29th April 2016, 06:21

Weather's been pretty good here, wind and hail but mostly Sun :)
I'll put my money on elfyn as I'm a bit biased being Welsh :D
Still not seen jari-mattis crash yet, but I'm sure I'll see it on you tube when I get a chance! Btw, your gran sounds awesome :)

SaxoVTSHUN

29th April 2016, 22:17

Just came home from the last SS, could caught right the start of the last one of today´s rally. Wasn´t bad, but, here we have the next consequence: it´s extremely important to have the right setup for the driving lamps. Correct angle AND vibration-free pod. The was a Lada, practically flat out in the curve, while a much stronger car (Evo) had to brake due to vibrating lamps which were probably seen also from a satellite or moon...and:there are no Michelin tyres.This is the first event where only the 2016´s tyres are accepted: Pirelli and Hankook. Tomorrow it will be surprising for some teams. Especially, as it was raining all day, and in the forest it will be probably wet.. BUT: I will have to make the VTS first, this is extremely important right from the morning hours. In worst case I will pass the SS and go to the service park (approx 3 kms from the house). On Sunday is everything closed (1st May) so I have to act tomorrow ;) Elfyn : I´m absolutely curious, as our Turan will complete also WRC2 this year, in a Fiesta R5. First rally is right the next WRC event. At least it will be a good measure where our "Frici" is compared to the professionals.
Yes, my grany is great, tomorrow will take care about her too, as today I didn´t have too much time to be with her.

SaxoVTSHUN

30th April 2016, 19:47

I finsihed the works on the throttles and drove the car. ;) The idle is high due to false air (it was not that bad till the blinding plug I made for the other end of the vacuum tube disappeared :DDDDDDD and I loose my brake servo too.....:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::c lapping::clapping:
but, it brakes, has nice big discs and DS3000s so no matter only I feel my right foot having had a hard hour in a gym :cool:he
The sorrow is the smoke and the mixture. And the exhaust is very hot.
Improving is the revving. Really, just like a car with DCOE. And I have to make some torque too, throttles without trumpets are not OK. But, it came to a stadium it runs at least :)

Spendyrx

30th April 2016, 21:40

Ah good effort, at least it's going :)
Enjoy the rally, sounds great! :D can't beat a good old lada :) not seen a lada in years!

SaxoVTSHUN

1st May 2016, 05:55

The rally is over. Was not bad, at least the weather became sunny. A good Lada...yes...there were some of them, but very-very seriously built cars. Some of them have a 16v head with stroker block, sequential gearbox, so these are much more developed (basically a smaller kit-car) than those in the eighties. And they´re are durable too. Formerly the very high tuned ladas always disappeared after the first leg. Not these.

SaxoVTSHUN

1st May 2016, 10:07

Today I was buying flowers (moter´s day) and drunka coffee. The exhaust smokes and a stinky smell is coming, like sulphur. I believe it´s due to the rich mixture. The car drives good, but I have to make something with this diesel-like clouds (it disappears partly when the engine works above 3500 rpm)

axsaxoman

3rd May 2016, 08:42

keep running it that rich and the oil will be like water and you will knacker the piston rings +bores
take off oil filler cap --if you can smell petrol --then you need to change oil -filter now and get it mapped before you have a broken engine

SaxoVTSHUN

3rd May 2016, 10:56

Thanks for the information, the oil change is due, will change oil on the weekend (had one or two liters of Motul, in worst case I buy a complete can again).

SaxoVTSHUN

7th May 2016, 12:04

So, the brake servo is connected and all the MAP sensor also gets vacuum. Only the idle air valve and the intake air temp sensor have no place yet.The engine idles on above 1500 rpm and there's less smoke.Can anyone tell me the correct impedance of the TPS?It is to be measured between the two outer pins, or? (The mid one is for the 5V DC).This is the newer type TPS , the part number is 96 424 732 80 on it. 2762A2848 is also printed there. Funny is, even out of the car I turned this with a screwdriver and the multimeter showed always 0.742kOhms...Thanks a lot!