Weight? Hmmmm...?

[argylefan1985]

Right then ladies and gents.Im thinking about striping my saxo out completely. Check my progress thread for pics of the interior currently.

For you lazy bastards ive got a 106gti interior in there.

Right but im thinking about striping out my car. And just having in there

2Buckets -harneses

Door bins.

Front carpet

Dash

And a false floor in the back with a sub bolted down in it too.

Would this be a noticeable bit lighter than currently?

Im a bit worried u see as im having the false floor. Which will obviously put weight back on. But i dont wanna go completly rally slag and loose all my tunes too.

Advice peoples ADVICE

btw i plan on putting a cammed vts engine in within the next 10months.

[TU-Tuning]

One point mate, i wouldnt like to leave my car parked up with the sub and amp in full view in the back of the car. It aint gonna stay there long

[argylefan1985]

Yeah it will A- Cars alarmed, B - Tinted Windows C- Area isnt rough and D - No1 would touch my car anyway too scared of daddy (ex boxer)lol

[TU-Tuning]

lol fair enough mate. Just ive got mates who have all of those things, some not the last one, and have had their stuff nicked. Will look awesome though

[bullit]

i wouldnt expect anything tbh mate. hole hog really. no spare wheel carpet the works really

[Ryan]

so people are scared of your dad when your parked at a car show?

seriosuly alarms me fuck all!, brick through window, jump in, sub out and run...

the alarms gone off but theyre gone by the time you arrive.

Also i will allways go on about why fitting buckets and harnesses is dangerous if you dont have a cage.

[argylefan1985]

so people are scared of your dad when your parked at a car show?

seriosuly alarms me fuck all!, brick through window, jump in, sub out and run...

the alarms gone off but theyre gone by the time you arrive.

Also i will allways go on about why fitting buckets and harnesses is dangerous if you dont have a cage.

Who says i go to many shows and when i do i never take my car anyway.

and sub would be bolted down anyway and if it gets nicked. it gets nicked woopty do.

Jus ave to buy a new 1 shit happens.

end of the day mate ive asked if i will see any gains from it or for possible suggestions not for critism of the idea in general thanks

[Ryan]

Who says i go to many shows and when i do i never take my car anyway.

and sub would be bolted down anyway and if it gets nicked. it gets nicked woopty do.

Jus ave to buy a new 1 shit happens.

end of the day mate ive asked if i will see any gains from it or for possible suggestions not for critism of the idea in general thanks

it was a gneralisation saying car show, i was informing you of the dangers of how your dad scaring people and having an alarm will do shit if people want to nick it, as even though your attitude is just get another im sure ull be pissed off at having to do so.

So when im giving you advice thats good for your bank balance (and with the comment about the cage your safety) learn to realise people will have input you WONT agree with.

[argylefan1985]

it was a gneralisation saying car show, i was informing you of the dangers of how your dad scaring people and having an alarm will do shit if people want to nick it, as even though your attitude is just get another im sure ull be pissed off at having to do so.

So when im giving you advice thats good for your bank balance (and with the comment about the cage your safety) learn to realise people will have input you WONT agree with.

No shit i think it goes by the way of constructive critism. Yeah alright say the sub got stolen however irrelivent it is. ok ill be pissed off for like all of... 20minutes. stayin mad aint gonna get it back.

Also i didnt ask for anything to do with the security side of things anyway so why is this even being spoken about. i asked for imput PERFORMANCE wise nothing else.

cheers all the same

[Ryan]

due to the false floor being needed due to the sub, i wouldnt expect alot of gains.

you could allways just run decent amped front components if you want good music still and have the back end clear and have speed.

[RedB]

Decent amped front comps, alpine etc and possibly some rear 6x9s to save space, weight and money LOL also not very noticeable

Performace wise throttle response would increase slightly depending on how far you go with the Slagging matey ie new lighweight windows, doors, everything stripped and done properly

Better handling although the car may be very light at high speed

Not really sure on other performance as i dont know much about your car or what you've done bud

[chrisni1986]

i honestly dont see the point in stripping unless its gonna be a track car etc with lightweight bucket for just the driver... perspex windows etc... i mean the back seats are practically two pieces of foam and then some carpet in the boot... there isnt actually that much weight being removed doing this..

[Ryan]

i honestly dont see the point in stripping unless its gonna be a track car etc with lightweight bucket for just the driver... perspex windows etc... i mean the back seats are practically two pieces of foam and then some carpet in the boot... there isnt actually that much weight being removed doing this..

have you ever removed the rear seats and weighed them? the rear upper part weighs a fair bit due to the reinforcing plates.

[MaRiO89]

If your gona slag it slag it..no half measures imo..

Also the top half of the rear seats are quite fekin heavy tbh as ryanal said..

As for gains..you probs wouldnt notice it..would be soo little.

To notice any gains you really have to take it all out like i did..and i think i only gained about 1/2-3/4's of a sec to 60 by doing that!

[Ryan]

i only gained about 1/2-3/4's of a sec to 60 by doing that!

i gained 2secs to 60 by having a big shit

[MaRiO89]

i gained 2secs to 60 by having a big shit

Good for you you cheeky bastard..:P

[Ryan]

Good for you you cheeky bastard..:P

muhahahahaahahahahahaha!

[Toad]

James is right. You need to make a decision and stick to it. No half way mate!

You can take a lot of things out of the car if you put your mind to it. The front door cards on my 106 weighed over 6 Kgs. Doesn't sound much, but when you add everything up, it really does make a difference.

[KamRacing]

weight is the enemy.. taking it off improves not only accelaration (I'm including braking here) but also all aspects of the handling.

As long as you don't add as much weight as you remove then you will see gains. As the weight you are adding is low down and in the back it should be fine.

[MaRiO89]

James is right. You need to make a decision and stick to it. No half way mate!

:y:

Now there's a man who know's what he's talking about! :)

[jeeves_101]

Also i will allways go on about why fitting buckets and harnesses is dangerous if you dont have a cage.

why is this? i have buckets and harnesses but no cage, as yet! will be getting one at some point.
but why is it dangerous?

[MaRiO89]

Thats one thing i disagree with ryan on..

I dont see how its any more gangerous than being seatbelted into a normal seat..

If anything imo its safer because the chances of you being slung out the window are reduced..

[jeeves_101]

thats what i was thinking, surely they are bolted down just as well, and the harnesses use the same mounting points, so how do they become dangerous?!?!

they hold you better and tighter and you dont roll or get whipped around either.

[MaRiO89]

Yeah exactly..

BUT

If you roll the car your fixed upright and the roof could crush you as you cant sorta put your head down..

Think thats why some think its dangerous..

Atleast you will be going faster without the weight of a cage..:p

[Toad]

My opinion on this... Having a cage in a road car CAN be dangerous, as people tend not to wear crash helmets while driving on the road! ;) I.e., having a roll cage is safer, but you need to be wearing a helmet or you can smack your head on them!

Secondly, harnesses are very safe, but they need to be used correctly. You need to have them on TIGHT so it almost hurts! ...Or you could snap your neck in a collision! :(

[jeeves_101]

that is true, mine are a touch lose and need to be tightened up really, but i can only just move in them.

i think i will get a cage at some point as i want the real track/rally look and i want to get out to some track days to and would love to go to the ring too.

[MaRiO89]

Yeah thats right Toad..

I tend to drive with mine slightly loose so i can lean forward a bit when pulling out of junctions etc..But if iam gong over 40 or so then i tighten them up..

[Toad]

Yeah, but remember, just because you are doing 20 mph, doesn't mean the person coming straight at you isn't!

[MaRiO89]

Yeah, but remember, just because you are doing 20 mph, doesn't mean the person coming straight at you isn't!

lol

True..

But its a risk we all take i suppose!

[Toad]

Tighten up then. :) Sore sholders is definately the lesser of two evils.

[Ryan]

bla bla! a cage should have padding on it where your head is so its no longer dangerous, also you should be seated below the upper cross bar on a cage anyway, sitting above it makes it worthless in a rolling incident.

the reason buckets and harnesses are dangerous are because you are in a fixed position with no roll over protection. They are also hard to get out of in a crash, eg, most people will have only 3 point harnesses which dont remove themselves so easily (the general public dont allways know how to remove a harness they do a belt) you also twist your back when removing them, which can cause damage if you have spinal injurys etc....

Also harnesses force you down in a crash and they will be sitting right by your belly, not your hip bone, the soft tissue here is alot easyer to damage than your pelvis.

theres so much i could go on about, but quite frankly i would be here all day, I have stated a few main reasons why they are dangerous which is fact.

[MaRiO89]

Tighten up then. :) Sore sholders is definately the lesser of two evils.

I agree with that!!

Looks like i better tighten them up then..:p

[James]

Ryan your points are valid babe but what about the + sides.. if they were so bad my insurance would not have dropped by 60 quid for fitting them... if there is more of a chance they will kill me or cause me more injuries my insurance would have surley gone up?

[Ryan]

Ryan your points are valid babe but what about the + sides.. if they were so bad my insurance would not have dropped by 60 quid for fitting them... if there is more of a chance they will kill me or cause me more injuries my insurance would have surley gone up?

insurance means naff all, adding a roll cage will increase your premium, and some companies wont cover you. Harnesses keep you in the seat, but as i said in a roll they can be alot more dangerous, Its also very dependant on the mechanism used, as to how safe they are, a 5 pointer which all realeases are alot safer than a 3 point due to the easew of which they are to undo and remove from the occupant without moving them.

[James]

My harness undo-thingy replicates a normal seatbelt.. you push it and it releases. Can get out of them as fast as i can a normal seatbelt so dosent bother me lol safer or not they make me feel allot more secure when driving fast :P

[Ryan]

My harness undo-thingy replicates a normal seatbelt.. you push it and it releases. Can get out of them as fast as i can a normal seatbelt so dosent bother me lol safer or not they make me feel allot more secure when driving fast :P

they relaese eith a push button, but do the shoulder straps and the lap straps both clip in (4 clips not just two)

its when they only have two clips that you cant be removed so easily in a crash, due to the fact that you need to turn your back, this can cripple you if there is trauma in the spinal region.

As ive said in previous conversations the way they keep you in the seat and secure isnt good if you roll. you dont have any protection for your skull with no cage, and because your in you cant move out of the way like you can with normal belts.

[Chris]

Right then ladies and gents.Im thinking about striping my saxo out completely. Check my progress thread for pics of the interior currently.

For you lazy bastards ive got a 106gti interior in there.

Right but im thinking about striping out my car. And just having in there

2Buckets -harneses

Door bins.

Front carpet

Dash

And a false floor in the back with a sub bolted down in it too.

Would this be a noticeable bit lighter than currently?

Im a bit worried u see as im having the false floor. Which will obviously put weight back on. But i dont wanna go completly rally slag and loose all my tunes too.

Advice peoples ADVICE

btw i plan on putting a cammed vts engine in within the next 10months.


So just a sub?? Will sound sh*t in a car that has no sound proofing, will probably blow your ear drums.

Chris :)

[Ryan]

So just a sub?? Will sound sh*t in a car that has no sound proofing, will probably blow your ear drums.

Chris :)

chris cant say that its not constructive critisism he doesnt like it ;)

[Chris]

chris cant say that its not constructive critisism he doesnt like it ;)

Well...if he doesn't want to take on board what other people are suggesting etc, let him go with what he has in mind and find out the hard way!

Chris :)

[Ryan]

Well...if he doesn't want to take on board what other people are suggesting etc, let him go with what he has in mind and find out the hard way!

Chris :)

init yo! ;)

[KamRacing]

Not quite relevent but close.

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/roemerduo.mpg

The person in the background is in a booster seat with seatbelt.
I know I'd rather be in the harness.

Can't find any comparisms on the seatbelt vs harness for adults. I can understand the danger of roll cages and head injuries and in the rare event of rolling over could be more risk of a crushing injury but for more fender benders I think they would be better... unless you get more of a whiplash effect on the head.

Has anyone got a decent link to some info?

[Toad]

If harnesses were less safe than the traditional seat belts, why are they used in motorsport, where accidents are common...?

[Ryan]

If harnesses were less safe than the traditional seat belts, why are they used in motorsport, where accidents are common...?


roll cages are fitted lol!

also most motorsport belts have a different release mechanism, the belts can be removed from the driver without the back getting moved.

UNLIKE all the 3 pointers most people have

[saunders]

Right so basically for all those who are looking at doing any rolling action on the track (or otherwise) please make sure if you have buckets to get the correct harnesses and a roll cage:P

But then every crash is different....the conditions, situations that this agruement is almost pointless

[Ryan]

Right so basically for all those who are looking at doing any rolling action on the track (or otherwise) please make sure if you have buckets to get the correct harnesses and a roll cage:P

But then every crash is different, conditions, situations that this agruement is almost pointless

not as pointless as your last post, if you dont have anything constructive to say dont try to look big or bump up your post count, its actually quite a decent discussion going on.

[Toad]

I've being mentioning to people on here a number of times about these cheap'ish 3 point harnesses, but nobody seemed to take any notice. Yes, if you take them into consideration, I can see your concern.

[Ryan]

I've being mentioning to people on here a number of times about these cheap'ish 3 point harnesses, but nobody seemed to take any notice. Yes, if you take them into consideration, I can see your concern.

everyone thinks that by fitting harnesses and buckets theyre safer (as well as being a real track slag init)

when infact in reality there are alot of dangers people dont think about.

dont do things by halves do it properly.

[saunders]

not as pointless as your last post, if you dont have anything constructive to say dont try to look big or bump up your post count, its actually quite a decent discussion going on.

Im just stating that there are various different types of equipment out there, so saying one setup (buckets and a rollcage) is solely better than another is wrong. If they were so dangerous on their own then it would at the least be advised by the manufacturers to have a roll cage installed aswell. as for the 3 point harness I can sort of see your point
Note:

I meant no offence by my last post, nore am I trying to bump up my own post count (to what gains I would actually get out of it?). I was purely voicing my own personal opinion.

[Ryan]

Im just stating that there are various different types of equipment out there, so saying one setup (buckets and a rollcage) is solely better than another is wrong. If they were so dangerous on their own then it would at the least be advised by the manufacturers to have a roll cage installed aswell. as for the 3 point harness I can sort of see your point
Note:

I meant no offence by my last post, nore am I trying to bump up my own post count (to what gains I would actually get out of it?). I was purely voicing my own personal opinion.

alot of harnesses do have for off road use only on them, this is usually due to the types of release mechanism.

they make money, theyre not going to say you must also buy this or people will be put off. Granted they keep you in the seat better, but as people forget tend to forget there are negatives. I feel its important to inform them of these in a constructive way, as in some cases serious injurys can occur.

Its the same with the how to mount a harness debate, about where people say you should mount them higher than the driver, and some say below. There are important safety aspects people need to research into before buying, as i said in the previous post, alot of people buy cheap buckets and 3 point harnesses think theyre safe as houses and a real rally god, put it on the roof and risk getting a broken skull.compressed spine.

[KamRacing]

the mounting issue is simpler to solve. Most manufacturer state a minimum angle rather than height. I think its 35-40degrees angle

[Ryan]

the mounting issue is simpler to solve. Most manufacturer state a minimum angle rather than height. I think its 35-40degrees angle

which as you know people still have problems with deciding lol!

Also saxos are not great to use 4/5 point harnesses in without having plates welded and eyes put in, something most dont do, and then go for the cheap 3 points that cant be removed easily.

[Toad]

I think I ended up paying around £150 per harness on my 106. I wasn't going to skimp on my own life!

[Ryan]

I think I ended up paying around £150 per harness on my 106. I wasn't going to skimp on my own life!

you also have recaros lol! you style whore ;)

I need to buy new harnesses, but for now mine will have to do, as i do have a cage.

you can fully understand my posts i hope about the way you are removed from a vehicle.

espec as roll cages should have safety foam fitted to them in all high risk areas, eg by legs and head

[Toad]

Sadly a friend of mine from another forum had a nasty accident in his TB'd 106 and got a smack on the head from the roll cage... He didn't have any foam! Car was a complete write off too.

[Toad]

you also have recaros lol! you style whore ;)

I need to buy new harnesses, but for now mine will have to do, as i do have a cage.

you can fully understand my posts i hope about the way you are removed from a vehicle.

espec as roll cages should have safety foam fitted to them in all high risk areas, eg by legs and head

Yeah man, sort me out with a cage already! :) :hug:

[Ryan]

Yeah man, sort me out with a cage already! :) :hug:

106 cup cage for 106 ;)

or get a weld in omp jobbie, the new (bolt in) still needs welding of box sections lol!

[KamRacing]

Sadly a friend of mine from another forum had a nasty accident in his TB'd 106 and got a smack on the head from the roll cage... He didn't have any foam! Car was a complete write off too.

standard seats? The fact is when fitting a cage and seats you need to set up the driving position so you do not have a risk of hitting your head on the cage. Most people just bolt the seats in without a second thought

[Ryan]

Sadly a friend of mine from another forum had a nasty accident in his TB'd 106 and got a smack on the head from the roll cage... He didn't have any foam! Car was a complete write off too.

your mates with beadle then! the big bum blaster ;)

that car was a mess, should be fully rebuilt soon though.

[Ryan]

standard seats? The fact is when fitting a cage and seats you need to set up the driving position so you do not have a risk of hitting your head on the cage. Most people just bolt the seats in without a second thought

exactly why i need to find someone who can weld, and wants to weld some bars to my floor so im sitting below the cross bar.

[James]

Are mine crap? :(

http://www.downtown-mafia.com/hmm.jpg

[Ryan]

Are mine crap? :(

http://www.downtown-mafia.com/hmm.jpg

my point about them is try getting out of them without moving your back.

i take it you do one shoulder at a time?

thats my comments about spinal trauma earlier.

[James]

I can get out of them without moving my back though.. i just tried lol because im skinny they usually just drop of my shoulders when i unclip them anyway.

[Ryan]

I can get out of them without moving my back though.. i just tried lol because im skinny they usually just drop of my shoulders when i unclip them anyway.

theyre loose then :P.

you can see my point i hope though, about that alot of people need to go in and ot one side at a time.

[James]

Yea I can see your point.. I'll leave a sticker on my dashboard for the paremedics.. (Undo me one side at a time).

[Ryan]

Yea I can see your point.. I'll leave a sticker on my dashboard for the paremedics.. (Undo me one side at a time).

its not paramedics, its general public, if your in a crash someone decides to help, a belt will remove itself out of harms way when released, harnesses dont

[adamhighfield]

i have never really thought about this before - i have always presumed that as harnesses were used in motorsport they were safer, but reading this thread i totally agree wiv whats bein sedby itsafastworld85

[Ryan]

i have never really thought about this before - i have always presumed that as harnesses were used in motorsport they were safer, but reading this thread i totally agree wiv whats bein sedby itsafastworld85

im glad that has made you think, thats all my comments are aimed at doing, educating people so they make the right decision for them.

[Toad]

That chap who had the accident was using Pole Position Recaro's just like mine... Oh dear. :(

[MaRiO89]

Cage's weigh too much..;)

[Ryan]

That chap who had the accident was using Pole Position Recaro's just like mine... Oh dear. :(

ja his were bics old ones irc.

[Toad]

I took a look for a roll cage, but sh*t, I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to be looking for... :homme:

[KamRacing]

get one from somewhere reputable.. Safety Devices are my fav, buy Custom cages also do a brilliant job.

I've not really used anyone elses to comment. OMP look alright also

[Ryan]

I took a look for a roll cage, but sh*t, I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to be looking for... :homme:


lol!

Safety devices 106 cup cage
or search on ebay YB racing will do a few 106 cages.

[Toad]

Since we're on the subject! ;) Do you know of a cage that will have a horizontal bar behind the front seats? Or can you just get one put in quite easily anyway? I'd like to fit my harnesses to the cage for extra support. I'm not 100% liking the current set up i've got for them.

[Ryan]

Since we're on the subject! ;) Do you know of a cage that will have a horizontal bar behind the front seats? Or can you just get one put in quite easily anyway? I'd like to fit my harnesses to the cage for extra support. I'm not 100% liking the current set up i've got for them.

SD cage irc has a horizontal bar for wrap around harnesses.

[Toad]

So the first one you mentioned should be the one then? I'll have to get on the blower to SD sometime, I've really got other stuff i should be doing first though... I need money! And time off work please!

[KamRacing]

the SD cages in particular are pretty modular.. when you by you can request bits like the harness bar, front strut triangulation, X door bars etc..

[Toad]

Cheers for that kam / Ryan.

[Toad]

Tough question, but does anyone know / want to have a stab in the dark with regard to how much weight could be lost from a 106 / Saxo if all 4 side windows and rear tail gate windscreen were replaced with Perspex / polycarbonate?

[Ryan]

Tough question, but does anyone know / want to have a stab in the dark with regard to how much weight could be lost from a 106 / Saxo if all 4 side windows and rear tail gate windscreen were replaced with Perspex / polycarbonate?

cant get a polycarbwindscreen as far as im aware, wouldnt want one either tbh.

[rushy_23]

Wouldnt they be noisy as fcuk??

Regarding cages I would imagine a decent cage would weight 40kgs ish? Its quite
a bit of weight to add to the car once its been stripped if you know what I
mean?

[Ryan]

Wouldnt they be noisy as fcuk??

Regarding cages I would imagine a decent cage would weight 40kgs ish? Its quite
a bit of weight to add to the car once its been stripped if you know what I
mean?

depends on the cage, OMP do ones as little as 19kgs irc.

mine is about 30kg, which isnt alot to be fair, ill just take a bigger shit before i drive it on track :P

polycarbs are not that noisy.

[Toad]

Anyone want to take a stab?

Ryan, why would you be so bothered about the tailgate?

[Ryan]

Anyone want to take a stab?

Ryan, why would you be so bothered about the tailgate?

windscreen.

tailgate i wouldnt care about, mines getting polycarb, aswell as the frame getting cut out.

[Toad]

That's what I meant previously. I need a dictionary! I thought tailgate meant just the rear framework, so I added 'windscreen' to try and describe that glass at the back.

[Ryan]

That's what I meant previously. I need a dictionary! I thought tailgate meant just the rear framework, so I added 'windscreen' to try and describe that glass at the back.

boot, tailgate, all mean the same to me.. and inc the rear screen.

no probs dude, just crossed wires init

[Toad]

Any thoughts on the actual weight difference? I really haven't a clue!

[Ryan]

Any thoughts on the actual weight difference? I really haven't a clue!

quite a bit tbh, although depends on the car, a 106 rallye came with thinner/lighter glass.

polycarb is light. but imo not for a daily car.

[Toad]

Give me a figure dude, lol! ;)

[rushy_23]

106 rallye came with thinner/lighter glass.

W*nkers!! I want there glass!

[Ryan]

Give me a figure dude, lol! ;)

depends on how thick the polycarb is used etc..

and ive not weighed my glass as im not analy retentive ;)

[Ryan]

W*nkers!! I want there glass!

not sure if it was just on s1s or not.

[jimbo232]

Take the interior out and sell it to me. Thats what god said anyway... :y:

[Toad]

depends on how thick the polycarb is used etc..

and ive not weighed my glass as im not analy retentive ;)

You politician you... lol :evil:

[Ryan]

You politician you... lol :evil:


id make a great politician when i retire from running.. at least then ill be a cunt to the publics faces ;)