my vtr turbo conversion

[saxokarl]

right can anyone with experience please tell me. i have a single plug ecu silver top engine ok now i have a brand new 207 hdi 16v turbo as i layed my hands on it at work its perfect to fit saxo really not much to mod just move were the exhaust goes any way i have the turbo, i have a custom manifold v gud job not a miged rush job coded welder dun it. the parts i have follow
turbo
manifold
induction pipes (stainless)
braided hose for the feed and t-piece
intercooler
al i wanna do basicly is run the turbo at about 6psi so i get a nice noise from dump valve.
i wanna no if i need to change any engine management to run such a low boost. any advice how i can adjust my boost and or wat to buy if i need to change the ecu programming open to all advice please

[saxokarl]

some help plz

[bullit]

mate not everyone has a turbo so not everyone will know the answer

for low boost you could run a dastek

[saxokarl]

i dint no if i would need anything as cituning just do a bolt on kit but in my eyes if your forcing induction u shud really increase the fuel

[saxokarl]

could anyone who has done this please pm me thaks guys

[2000vtr]

sigcon mf2 , piggyback

[AXracing]

I believe the 207 hdi has a diesel specific wastegate less electronic controlled variable geometry turbo does it not? If so then its totally the wrong unit. If you post up some photos and write down what it says on it I can probably tell you exactly what you have.

As for management if you run low boost and good fuel you can give a variable flow FPR a go. But really I would not bother. Minimum spec I would run would be a MF2 SigCon2 combo as recommended already. That or a Remap. Or even stand alone, KMS are very cheap at the moment.

Don’t forget down pipe, oil return and oil cooler. Remote oil filter is normally used as well but that depends where you mount your turbo.

[mallboy]

some good advice above^^. the least i would go for is a 5th injector with an mf2 and 2bar map sensor;)

would check the turbo too, i think a t25 garret would be best suited for the conversion

[saxokarl]

no the turbo is just like normal no electronic solinoid on it the snail on the actuator goes straight in to the turbo v similar to r5 turbo.

[saxokarl]

i just wanna run it as cheap as poss wat shud i buy and were from thanks guys

[AXracing]

Just out of interest what turbo is it? It will probably have the manufacture, model number, serial number, compressor housing and turbine housing printed on it.

[saxokarl]

would i also be right if i fitted a 3way bleed valve to adjust the boost and use the pipe left to run to a boost gauge in the car. would that work

[mallboy]

would i also be right if i fitted a 3way bleed valve to adjust the boost and use the pipe left to run to a boost gauge in the car. would that work

no it wont work. the boost gauge will have to be taken from either the inlet manifold or the actual boost hoses. as for the bleed valve the 3rd outlet is just meant to be left alone as it only vents the air out so the wastegate opens later - hence more psi

[S34MER]

I hope your not too bothered about your car mate!

[mallboy]

I hope your not too bothered about your car mate!

huh? was that refering to me or saxokarl?

[S34MER]

saxokarl lol

[Karl]

turbo'ing your car won't be cheap buddy, certainly looking to turbo it for hardly any money at all is bad news.

[S34MER]

couldn't agree more!

[saxokarl]

love it who wunt look at it thats one of the pics when she was feature a few months ago.
if it blows o well engines are cheap
http://http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/4/S/30000000bcf6d2d/1/10/I1u5XRnC7D96DhfSiG6RAvsKTLGRbRwS.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/REPKgfIZ2j_96Mq-xYzdHwXs0vf-tONf?referrer=hlnk)

[saxokarl]

this was at cs show jus thought i ant shown me car on here yet but spoke to some of you at donny sound lads. who ever it was. total understand what you guys are saying but i wanna try it myself worst that can happen is engine goes and there not that expensive. so with alittle help here and there it mite work!!!
http://www.cruizin-style.co.uk/web_gallery/IEYGAW/viewsize/CS_Show_2007_(602).jpg

[S34MER]

the parts i have follow:
turbo
manifold
induction pipes (stainless)
braided hose for the feed and t-piece
intercooler
al i wanna do basicly is run the turbo at about 6psi so i get a nice noise from dump valve.
i wanna no if i need to change any engine management to run such a low boost. any advice how i can adjust my boost and or wat to buy if i need to change the ecu programming open to all advice please

If its the whoosh noise you want, you can always consider the fake dump valve, its much cheaper and you'll be the coolest cat on the street :afro:

on a serious note though.... You will need to either run different management so standalone, or something like that would be best bet, OR you could use your existing ecu + extra injectors and and mf2 fuel driver.

Reading through your parts above, you may also want to consider:
Bigger brakes - no point having the power if you can't stop ;)
Uprated clutch
5th injector
you may need to lower the compression in the head aswell, so low comp pistons and a thicker head gasket maybe needed, if your doing it properly and plan on upping the boost later on!!
Dump Valve - you need one of these if your wanting the whoosh ;)
Map sensor
Oil feed and return
Downpipe

hope this helps mate

Oli :y:

[saxokarl]

thanks m8 yea i fink my brakes are gud for a saxo sum are shocking lol
but will upgraded.
i have everything braided feed pipe custom made at a shop ner my house perfect and a hose to my sump to return just need the bit welding to my sump but im gonna get a spare so if it dunt work i have a back up.
i hav the lot just no management because cituning told me i wunt need it at 5-6psi like there bolt on kit. but i have been quoted to fit a unichip and the boost bit aswell and rolling rd set up 500quid.
the guy sed standard management only uses aroung half of what your injectors are caperble of.

[saxokarl]

forgot ta say ya car luks mint m8;)

[mallboy]

dont listen to cituning, you have to get extra fueling in otherwise the car will run lean and foock your pistons up and maybe worse. i would get an mf2, 2bar map sensor and 5th injector. if it is a mk2 saxo then defo consider a signal conditioner. dont forget the oil cooler aswell;)

[Ste]

Well mate im doing the same as you but taking my time about it.

An MF2 is a 100% requirement for longetivity. Ebay for about 100 quid.

The turbo, manifold, oil etc is the easy bit tbh.

Id get an intercooler aswell as the VTR will overheat pretty quickly.

Once youre happy with the kit you've got just bolt it all on get the pipes welded up and the MF2 wired up. Once thats all done, id get a Pro in to map it all up and get it running at a low boost. Then get a set of forgies and start tunning it to run properly.

To run at 6psi you dont need the MF2 but the engines integriity is at stake!!!

[tweeqd]

you wont get sod all sound from a dump valve at 6psi

[GrantW]

Whats the difference between bar and psi???

[AXracing]

Whats the difference between bar and psi???

1 bar = 14.5 psi

[bullit]

sounds like shituning

[AXracing]

would i also be right if i fitted a 3way bleed valve to adjust the boost and use the pipe left to run to a boost gauge in the car. would that work

i have everything braided feed pipe custom made at a shop ner my house perfect and a hose to my sump to return just need the bit welding to my sump but im gonna get a spare so if it dunt work i have a back up.
i hav the lot just no management because cituning told me i wunt need it at 5-6psi like there bolt on kit. but i have been quoted to fit a unichip and the boost bit aswell and rolling rd set up 500quid.
the guy sed standard management only uses aroung half of what your injectors are caperble of.

What actuator has your turbo got? I think your going the wrong way as the bleed valve can only be used to increase boost not decrease.

I would ignore what Cituning say about there basic kit. The charge runs so hot and it swings from lean to rich all the time. Not good especially when you consider the poor power gains.

Whoever is mapping your is talking rubbish if that is what they are telling you. There is no way you could get enough fuel for 200bhp out of stock VTR injectors especially not at stock fuel pressure.

I really would look in to this a lot more before spending your money or you may be throwing a lot of cash away.

[tweeqd]

Whats the difference between bar and psi???

as tom says its like inch and mm

[saxokarl]

man it will only be about 120-130bhp if am luky like i say i want noise from the dump valve and you do get a great noise from 6psi my m8 as a adjusteble boost controller on his r5 and he sed he does at 6psi

[tweeqd]

what dump valve and turbo as i have a GFB and was running a T2/T25 and you couldnt hear it at 6psi but was bloody loud at 16psi lol

[saxokarl]

right my turbo is a kp35 kp-35-487599
how the hell can i find out what boost it is set at from the factory it fit s a 207 1.4 hdi 16valve anyone had n e idea

[mrtuck16v]

im sure you cant use a diesel turbo for a petrol engine as the temps are tottally diff and turbo will foook up iirc!

[AXracing]

That is a Borgwarner turbo you have there.

Looking up the flow of it looks to be a very small turbo with a maximum flow rate of only 0,12 kg a second. Or to but that in to something tangible that’s just under 80bhp maximum. So it would only flow enough to do a low boost turbo setup on a 1.1 petrol Saxo.

Another issue is that Borgwarner state its only for use with diesel engines. They offer other turbos that are equipped to handle the very corrosive and higher temperatures exhaust gasses from petrol engines.

You may wish to contact Borgwarner your self for more information and advice. But personally I would recommend you going for a Honeywell Garrett or Mitsubishi Heavy Industries turbo unit.

[S34MER]

That is a Borgwarner turbo you have there.

Looking up the flow of it looks to be a very small turbo with a maximum flow rate of only 0,12 kg a second. Or to but that in to something tangible that’s just under 80bhp maximum. So it would only flow enough to do a low boost turbo setup on a 1.1 petrol Saxo.

Another issue is that Borgwarner state its only for use with diesel engines. They offer other turbos that are equipped to handle the very corrosive and higher temperatures exhaust gasses from petrol engines.

You may wish to contact Borgwarner your self for more information and advice. But personally I would recommend you going for a Honeywell Garrett or Mitsubishi Heavy Industries turbo unit.


clever bollox :p

sounds like someone knows their shiz! :clapping:

[saxokarl]

so are you saying this will give me now power increase at all and no dump valve noise or it will work just not v powerful

[bullit]

so are you saying this will give me now power increase at all and no dump valve noise or it will work just not v powerful

basically its completely wrong so dont use it

[saxokarl]

were theres a will thers away

[Scott]

theres also melted pistons when fannying about with forced induction

[mallboy]

theres also melted pistons when fannying about with forced induction

thats one thing that im always worried about - as i havent got mine setup professionally yet = because im skint and also lazy

[AXracing]

As long as you play it safe you should be fine. Your enemy is knocking, under fuelling and over heating.

[AXracing]

so are you saying this will give me now power increase at all and no dump valve noise or it will work just not v powerful

As Bullit says its really totally the wrong turbo.

[medz_vtrturbo]

sedekdkekdkekdekkde

[saxokarl]

as long as its ran rich and not lean then pistons shud b ok.
i dont see the problem the turbo works like most others.
also do mrk 2 saxo have the fan at the front or behind the rad like mrk 1s
as myn is in the way

[medz_vtrturbo]

the mark 1's have the fan on the engine side. but its a piece of piss to put it on the front. just undo the bolt holding it then it slides out. and there's a bolt hole for it on the front, just put it on the front like u pulled it off.:y:

[bullit]

its been explained to you that the turbo will be crap from experianced tuners but you seem not want to take their advice.

head + wall

[saxokarl]

yes but if u put the raditaor the othe rside from the engine then in blows engine out of the front of the car not pull air in so i was gonna use mrk 2 as they are not on engine side so i hav been told.

yes i have listen to their advice but i am still goin ahead as i wanna try it. (if some tells ya ta put ya head in a fire do ya)

i keep gettin its no gud but their opinions no evidence do back it up if ther was a gud reason/ explermation i wud probably change a few ideas.

the only thing is my turbo. but i keep saying its not for performace its for shows only.

[MaRiO89]

head + wall

I'll say it properly...

:wall:

;)

[medz_vtrturbo]

yes but if u put the raditaor the othe rside from the engine then in blows engine out of the front of the car not pull air in so i was gonna use mrk 2 as they are not on engine side so i hav been told.

yes i have listen to their advice but i am still goin ahead as i wanna try it. (if some tells ya ta put ya head in a fire do ya)

i keep gettin its no gud but their opinions no evidence do back it up if ther was a gud reason/ explermation i wud probably change a few ideas.

the only thing is my turbo. but i keep saying its not for performace its for shows only.

u shuldnt need to move the rad. the fan doesnt cool your engine down, it cools the water in in the rad which then cools the engine

[saxokarl]

yeah i know that bit but the turbo gets in the way of the fan so i need it the other side to pull in air to the rad because wen its idleing like every saxo the fans on 24/7 so with out it i mite overheat.
if any one with a mk2 vtr cud let me no if their rad fan is the engine side or bumper side

[medz_vtrturbo]

it doesnt really matter which side it goes m8

[saxokarl]

yes but if i put the one i have at the front it blows air out ov the front ov me bumper it shud pull air in because when am goin down the road my fan will be working against the air not with it.

[medz_vtrturbo]

when u are going down the road the fan shouldnt really come on, unless you are ragging the balls off it. honestly now. the fan will blow air on your radiator, when you put it on the outside, coz thats what i have done. andit is fine

[saxokarl]

really m8 i can stand at the front ov my car and it blow warm air straight at me i moved thought it wud be ok but wen i go over 100mph it overheats since i have moved it i desconneted it an it is ok and am sure its because its not letting enought air on the rad because its blowing it.

[saxokarl]

an some one sed the mk2 have the fans at the front so i thought i wud check if they do i will get one if not al put vts unit on.

[saxokarl]

its ok m8 i have checked on ebay luked at vtrs and it luks like al the vtrs with the close cuppled cat have the rad fan at fron al get to scrappy tamoz thanks for your help anyway. ordered a mf2 like you sed got it for 210quid what injector did you use

[medz_vtrturbo]

its ok m8 i have checked on ebay luked at vtrs and it luks like al the vtrs with the close cuppled cat have the rad fan at fron al get to scrappy tamoz thanks for your help anyway. ordered a mf2 like you sed got it for 210quid what injector did you use

dunno what injector it is mate, i got it off mallboy. u got all the parts u need for a conversion now?

[saxokarl]

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/lucollins/DSC00231.jpg


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/lucollins/DSC00230.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/lucollins/DSC00228.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/lucollins/DSC00227.jpg

[saxokarl]

do ya like the piece made so the turbo dunt have to be welded to manifold
me m8 made it in 20min at work

[mallboy]

the turbo is not going to last for long mate at that angle, but if it isnt the power your after then you wont be bothered. as for injector - it depends on what boost pressure your looking at, you will need an injector probably bigger than 400cc anyway.

as for the fan i had the same problem and bought a slimline fan for 50 quid brand new which was also reversible.

[saxokarl]

thanks m8 am goin ta get vts and fit two wire the second one in to work at same time its goin ta get hot under ther so cant do any harm. only gonna run about 6-7 psi

[AXracing]

i keep gettin its no gud but their opinions no evidence do back it up if ther was a gud reason/ explermation i wud probably change a few ideas.

What bit do you not understand that I have said? If you let me know I will try and explain for you.

The turbo you have has a very small 38mm compressor wheel.
The turbo you have is rated at a maximum of 206,000rpm
The turbo you have because of the above flows 0,12 kg of air a second
The turbo you have flows enough air for about 80bhp
The turbo you have capable of operating at even close to 1000C that is often achieved in petrol engines
The turbo you have only has a wastage rated to flow enough for a average 80bhp engine

Just think of the basics of how a turbo works. You are only getting boost from one because its providing more air than your engine is using and so the pressure builds. If you have a turbo that is not providing as much air as the engine is using you get a vacuum rather than boost. Now I don’t have the exact flow map for your turbo so cant give you the exact numbers but if you have a 98bhp you will not be holding boost at maximum engine speed required. You will be running such great back pressure that your exhaust will get so hot it will glow translucent. Your turbo will be running so far over its maximum rated operating revs and operating temperature that I life span will be minimal at best. There will be other problems but you say performance is what you want so I will not get in to them.

I am just advising against using the turbo as in every way its the wrong one to use. If you have not used it you can probably get a refund and get one that will be suitable for your application. Or if you got it off ebay or something like that just sell it on and get the correct one. There are so many turbos that would work so much better and most are very cheap. I tend to recommend against Renault 5 GT turbo chargers but compared to what you have they are perfect.

But if you must use it pleas at least get your oil drain at the bottom of your turbo, at the very least that will give your turbo a fighting chance of lasting more than a few hours. Also don’t forget to restrict the oil pressure going to it as the oil feed from your engine will be running at about double the turbos operating pressure.

PS also use copper nuts to bolt your turbo on

[saxokarl]

ok thanks the bit i dint get was the 80bhp turbo. so basiclly tht turbo is rated upto 80bhp and my engine is more than tht so it wont generate and boost tht rite

[bullit]

basically yes. i think you said you got it for nothing but as your spending money here and there theres no point skimping on a turbo when you can get a diff one and actually have gains etc

[saxokarl]

so which exact one do u recommend for my requirements. i so just want a dump noise lol bit ov a power increase is always nice too

[AXracing]

Not knowing the exact specs but I would think something like a Garrett GT20 or a GT22 if your going new. Be careful of the GT22 however as there are two standard trims for it. The bigger GT22 has a 59.4mm compressor wheel where as the smaller has a 52mm one and is probably better for you. The GT20 has a 56mm wheel but actually has a smaller turbine wheel than the GT22 so spins up very quickly.

You will not go far wrong in size getting a turbo from a car with a broadly similar engine and power output if you wish to go for a used part. Something like a Renault 5 GT turbo turbo unit though old and very poor by todays standards would work fine for you and get you the sound you wanted. Though just be careful that many turbos come with manifolds cast in or electronic control. There best to avoid just for simplicity sake.

[saxokarl]

thanks m8