rallye, xsi head on saxo westcoast

[westiejack]

would an xsi or rallye head fit on a 1.4 saxo westcoast? if so would i need a re-map?

[westiejack]

anyone?

[AXracing]

What engine is in your westcoast? Picture of engine and ECU would help.

[MaRiO89]

XSI head will fit..

Same bottom end near enough on the XSI as the westy..the XSI got its extra power from bigger inlets..100bhp iirc..

[Tobs]

do those xsis drink fuel at all?

anyone got one on here?

[MaRiO89]

Wouldnt say they would drink fuel..only a 1.4 at the end of the day if you take it steady..Drive it hard and it will drink abit i expect..

[westiejack]

So would i need a remap if i put an xsi/rallye head on?.....I put a rallye gearbox on my westcoast and because of the shorter ratios it tends to drink more petrol due to higher revs.

[AXracing]

XSI head will fit..

Same bottom end near enough on the XSI as the westy..the XSI got its extra power from bigger inlets..100bhp iirc..

Not really so, the block, sump, oil pimp, pistons, connecting rods, head castings, valves, valve springs, rocker gear, inlet manifold, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, exhaust manifold, exhaust system, cam, CAT, ECU are to name but a few differences between those two engines. It would be easier to list what they have in common than what is different.

[106gti]

Rallye top end would be a good mod, but i'm not sure the bottom end would be able to cope with the bigger rev limit.

Would also need the rallye ecu and most likely a remap.

the rallyes come with a better cam as standard too.

[infamousaidy]

just find a low miles s2 rallye engine and throw the lot in. s1 engines are hard work and not very quick and drink a fair bit of fuel when ya trying to keep em going.

the s2 engines are quite thirsty too. and 1.4 xsi engines would be rare with low miles. quick for what they are tho

[MaRiO89]

LOL @ the, not sure if the botom end would cope!!

All TU bottom ends are solid, all use the same materials etc and the crank pin diameter is the same as most 2 litre cars..

John from GMC motorsport said he had a std alloy block 1.4 bottom end revving to 11000rpm or something stupid in an AX rallycross car and never went wrong..

[MaRiO89]

Not really so, the block, sump, oil pimp, pistons, connecting rods, head castings, valves, valve springs, rocker gear, inlet manifold, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, exhaust manifold, exhaust system, cam, CAT, ECU are to name but a few differences between those two engines. It would be easier to list what they have in common than what is different.

Maybe slightly different designed bottom end etc but same materials would be used..

People have done it, couple on SSC have so it is possible and not as much trouble as you like to make out!

[MaRiO89]

What engine is in your westcoast? Picture of engine and ECU would help.


Sorry but how can you give any sort of technical advice when you ask that!
:panic:

[AlexR]

James you are wrong. The block on the XSi is made from Iron. The block on the westcoast is made from alloy and has cylinder liners, that is the main construction and is totally different.
I am guessing AXracers real name is Tom meaning he knows more than you could imagine about 8v's ;)

[AXracing]

James_Bristol. All early TU bottom ends are solid. The iron block ones especially. The very last 1.4s fitted to the late Saxos and 106 are substantially weaker. All the early engines were very over engineered, the later ones are not. If you PM the people who have done what you say on the Saxo forum you will see its quite complicated. I have given some of them a hand and one of them has most of my old XSI engine. They have swapped full management systems including inlets manifold, fuel rail, injectors, throttle body, loom, map sensor and many other parts. I asked what engine it was as not all cars have the same engine. I know its not any of the better engines as they had already stopped making them at this point. But as I cant remember every engine revision used on every PSA car especially when I don’t know the year of car I thought best to ask rather than just assume. Even if you know the registration that is only indicative of year of registration and not manufacture so really asking was the best option. I also have one of Johns sprint engines that sees over 10k every time its out along with a few other race engines. John tends to use Iron blocks as the alloy one is a bit weak. As alex says the 106 XSI are all iron.

Ha Ha Alex yes it is I. Am I that easy to identify lol.

[MaRiO89]

I know that the older ones are iron and the new ones are alloy, but iron blocks wear the pistons out quicker than alloy, also why would a company make their engines weaker as they develop them more?!

Just doesn't make sense..Why do you think pretty much all modern engines are now alloy blocks..Things have moved on etc..

Yes i dont doubt the design is different but the materials will be the same in the conrods etc.. The XSI's dont have like a billet steel crank and stuff, will be the same as the westy's etc..

They aint anything special! lol

[williamsvts]

i dont think it was a case of "we'll make them weaker", they probably realised they were over engineering parts so could have saved money but 'tightening the tolerances' or safety margins, whatever you want to call it.

[AlexR]

The westcoast engine is far weaker, end of story.

The original TUs were all alloy block, the 1.0 and 1.1 carbs used in the visa, then the 1.4 was made, also alloy block in all states of tune, then when they started making injection the made the iron blocks, the only cars that got iron blocks were the 1.5 diesel(the 1.4d was alloy block and ate head gaskets and cylinder liners) so they were upgrading from alloy block. The 1.4 GTi has iron block and is 100bhp in pre cat form, compared to the 90bhp of the alloy block GT, again the iron block came after alloy and was for higher powered engines. And ALL 1.6 TUs are iron block. Funny that.

The early 405 Mi16 1.9 engine was an alloy block, when they upgraded to 2.0 iron block in the 306 a lot of the engine problems were resolved. again went from alloy to iron.

So in fact the westcoast is just an old engine left over from the 1980s, producing only 75bhp.

And the alloy blocks use steel liners anyway so will wear the piston rings not pistons at the same rate. Pistons don't wear, they lose integral strength over time due to stress but they do not wear, the rings wear. and these are replaceable pretty easily.

Hi Tom :D

[AlexR]

Also the XSi has higher compression pistons as well as a far steeper cam, bigger valves and no doubt lightened bottom end as it revs higher.

[TU-Tuning]

Quick question, ive heard you can fit the VTR botom end to the 1.4 engine without any problems to gain power, is that true?

[AlexR]

depends which 1.4 engine it is. you could fit an xsi head to a vtr engine and gain some power. It would never be right without the correct fuelling/mapping though.

fitting a vtr bottom end to a furio would gain plenty of torque and a little bit of power. the valves are small though on the furio head, the mapping would be wrong so you wouldn't get the full benefit, wouldn't make vtr power or torque but would be more than standard.

[AXracing]

i dont think it was a case of "we'll make them weaker", they probably realised they were over engineering parts so could have saved money but 'tightening the tolerances' or safety margins, whatever you want to call it.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. Its all about economy. It cost them less and its actually makes for the normal road user a better engine. If you just take the pistons and rods of the early engines and compare them to the newer ones. They are so over engineered in the early engines that you can spin the XSI ones at over 9000rpm. Where as you look at the late ones there so minimal and so basic they look like twigs.

[MaRiO89]

The C2 VTS engines are alloy block and head..Rev the same as the saxo vts engines too..Also have 5bhp more..can you explain that one away then alex?

I dont doubt that the older engines are stronger, but you lot make the new ones out to be weak etc.. makes me laugh..

Car companys have a reputation to consider remember..

[Ryan]

bigger valves and different throttle body on new vts engines.

why do you think people use the c2 heads on older saxo bottom ends>

would equate to the little bhp increase

[AlexR]

I'm sure the C2 engine is iron block. and all saxo heads are alloy.

and as i pointed out in fact the "old" design is alloy, and it is done to keep down weight, weighs a lot less.

i have explained that newer TUs are iron block and older ones are alloy.
i have also pointed out that the old XU engines were alloy and are now iron block too.

so the old design is the alloy block.

[MaRiO89]

lol, you have that wrong dude..the new c2 vts engine is alloy block..as are most modern engines...look on google and you will find out..

[AlexR]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/hansthebear/DSC00157-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/hansthebear/IMAGE_121.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/hansthebear/DSC001561.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/hansthebear/DSC001651.jpg

You got pwn3d!

[MaRiO89]

Welldone its an engine..

The new ones are alloy block mate.

[AlexR]

well done it's an engine?

It's a TU5JP4 as fitted to C2 GT and VTS. You can tell it is because of the oil filter arrangement which saxo vts's never got. Oh and the cam covers and alloy sump.

Then look at the difference in appearance between the alloy head and sump and the iron block which incidentally has rust on it, because iron rusts and alloy only corrodes lightly.

[MaRiO89]

lol, ok mate..

I'm not arguing about it anymore..but have a read of this.

http://search.carsguide.news.com.au/new-20001-25000-cars/5-20060720.11:03:08.htm

look at the bottom under engine spec and see whats said..

[AlexR]

Well they're wrong end of.

[MaRiO89]

hahahaha

[Scott]

Just to add TU5JP4 uses an iron block and ally head. As appears almost everywhere on the internet including peugeots own:

http://www.peugeot.co.nz/News/MediaDetails.aspx?ArticleID=149

[AXracing]

I can also say the C2 is a iron block as I have one sat on my drive right now. The new PSA engine as used in the new MINI (dont ask) is alloy. This engine will most likely make its way in to the C2 at some point if the C2 stays around for long enough, but its not there now. The hole alloy iron thing is a null point. You can make both work, its as simple as that. The simple fact is in the TU engine the Iron block is a lot stronger than the alloy block. But there are so many other things to worry about before the block becomes even close to a problem when tuning the 1.4 TUs.