rallye, xsi head on saxo westcoast - Saxperience

westiejack · 2nd June 2007, 20:01

would an xsi or rallye head fit on a 1.4 saxo westcoast? if so would i need a re-map?

westiejack · 2nd June 2007, 20:14

anyone?

AXracing · 2nd June 2007, 20:22

What engine is in your westcoast? Picture of engine and ECU would help.

MaRiO89 · 3rd June 2007, 00:12

XSI head will fit..

Same bottom end near enough on the XSI as the westy..the XSI got its extra power from bigger inlets..100bhp iirc..

Tobs · 3rd June 2007, 00:14

do those xsis drink fuel at all?

anyone got one on here?

MaRiO89 · 3rd June 2007, 00:15

Wouldnt say they would drink fuel..only a 1.4 at the end of the day if you take it steady..Drive it hard and it will drink abit i expect..

westiejack · 3rd June 2007, 11:40

So would i need a remap if i put an xsi/rallye head on?.....I put a rallye gearbox on my westcoast and because of the shorter ratios it tends to drink more petrol due to higher revs.

AXracing · 4th June 2007, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

XSI head will fit..

Same bottom end near enough on the XSI as the westy..the XSI got its extra power from bigger inlets..100bhp iirc..

Not really so, the block, sump, oil pimp, pistons, connecting rods, head castings, valves, valve springs, rocker gear, inlet manifold, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, exhaust manifold, exhaust system, cam, CAT, ECU are to name but a few differences between those two engines. It would be easier to list what they have in common than what is different.

106gti · 4th June 2007, 00:11

Rallye top end would be a good mod, but i'm not sure the bottom end would be able to cope with the bigger rev limit.

Would also need the rallye ecu and most likely a remap.

the rallyes come with a better cam as standard too.

infamousaidy · 4th June 2007, 08:42

just find a low miles s2 rallye engine and throw the lot in. s1 engines are hard work and not very quick and drink a fair bit of fuel when ya trying to keep em going.

the s2 engines are quite thirsty too. and 1.4 xsi engines would be rare with low miles. quick for what they are tho

MaRiO89 · 4th June 2007, 09:39

LOL @ the, not sure if the botom end would cope!!

All TU bottom ends are solid, all use the same materials etc and the crank pin diameter is the same as most 2 litre cars..

John from GMC motorsport said he had a std alloy block 1.4 bottom end revving to 11000rpm or something stupid in an AX rallycross car and never went wrong..

MaRiO89 · 4th June 2007, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

Not really so, the block, sump, oil pimp, pistons, connecting rods, head castings, valves, valve springs, rocker gear, inlet manifold, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, exhaust manifold, exhaust system, cam, CAT, ECU are to name but a few differences between those two engines. It would be easier to list what they have in common than what is different.

Maybe slightly different designed bottom end etc but same materials would be used..

People have done it, couple on SSC have so it is possible and not as much trouble as you like to make out!

MaRiO89 · 4th June 2007, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXracing

What engine is in your westcoast? Picture of engine and ECU would help.

Sorry but how can you give any sort of technical advice when you ask that!

AlexR · 4th June 2007, 10:47

James you are wrong. The block on the XSi is made from Iron. The block on the westcoast is made from alloy and has cylinder liners, that is the main construction and is totally different.
I am guessing AXracers real name is Tom meaning he knows more than you could imagine about 8v's

AXracing · 4th June 2007, 19:32

James_Bristol. All early TU bottom ends are solid. The iron block ones especially. The very last 1.4s fitted to the late Saxos and 106 are substantially weaker. All the early engines were very over engineered, the later ones are not. If you PM the people who have done what you say on the Saxo forum you will see its quite complicated. I have given some of them a hand and one of them has most of my old XSI engine. They have swapped full management systems including inlets manifold, fuel rail, injectors, throttle body, loom, map sensor and many other parts. I asked what engine it was as not all cars have the same engine. I know its not any of the better engines as they had already stopped making them at this point. But as I cant remember every engine revision used on every PSA car especially when I don’t know the year of car I thought best to ask rather than just assume. Even if you know the registration that is only indicative of year of registration and not manufacture so really asking was the best option. I also have one of Johns sprint engines that sees over 10k every time its out along with a few other race engines. John tends to use Iron blocks as the alloy one is a bit weak. As alex says the 106 XSI are all iron.

Ha Ha Alex yes it is I. Am I that easy to identify lol.

MaRiO89 · 5th June 2007, 01:44

I know that the older ones are iron and the new ones are alloy, but iron blocks wear the pistons out quicker than alloy, also why would a company make their engines weaker as they develop them more?!

Just doesn't make sense..Why do you think pretty much all modern engines are now alloy blocks..Things have moved on etc..

Yes i dont doubt the design is different but the materials will be the same in the conrods etc.. The XSI's dont have like a billet steel crank and stuff, will be the same as the westy's etc..

They aint anything special! lol

williamsvts · 5th June 2007, 02:42

i dont think it was a case of "we'll make them weaker", they probably realised they were over engineering parts so could have saved money but 'tightening the tolerances' or safety margins, whatever you want to call it.

AlexR · 5th June 2007, 18:09

The westcoast engine is far weaker, end of story.

The original TUs were all alloy block, the 1.0 and 1.1 carbs used in the visa, then the 1.4 was made, also alloy block in all states of tune, then when they started making injection the made the iron blocks, the only cars that got iron blocks were the 1.5 diesel(the 1.4d was alloy block and ate head gaskets and cylinder liners) so they were upgrading from alloy block. The 1.4 GTi has iron block and is 100bhp in pre cat form, compared to the 90bhp of the alloy block GT, again the iron block came after alloy and was for higher powered engines. And ALL 1.6 TUs are iron block. Funny that.

The early 405 Mi16 1.9 engine was an alloy block, when they upgraded to 2.0 iron block in the 306 a lot of the engine problems were resolved. again went from alloy to iron.

So in fact the westcoast is just an old engine left over from the 1980s, producing only 75bhp.

And the alloy blocks use steel liners anyway so will wear the piston rings not pistons at the same rate. Pistons don't wear, they lose integral strength over time due to stress but they do not wear, the rings wear. and these are replaceable pretty easily.

Hi Tom

AlexR · 5th June 2007, 18:11

Also the XSi has higher compression pistons as well as a far steeper cam, bigger valves and no doubt lightened bottom end as it revs higher.

TU-Tuning · 5th June 2007, 18:34

Quick question, ive heard you can fit the VTR botom end to the 1.4 engine without any problems to gain power, is that true?