| Saxo Engine/Performance If you're interested in tuning Saxo engines, or if you need to know something which is engine related... this is the place for you. |
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1st November 2008, 18:55
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#1
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L-plater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lisbon Portugal
Posts: 35
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cams for track use only
hello
im a portuguese and have one saxo 16v (vts) just track use
now is time the update cams, but i have one problem:
what a cams choose.
catcames 715? newman PH4? ... ?
the car already has air induction, exhaust system, re-maped, and more.
please help mi choice 
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1st November 2008, 18:58
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#2
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pompey/Darlo
Posts: 31,546
Car(s): MK1 - 1.1 Animal
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would those cams not be a little to wild for just cams? unless you uprated internals? not 100% on that tho
i have the catcam 708s and thought they were the wildest cams to use for road and track use? unless your going for more than cams? ie throttle bodies?
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1st November 2008, 19:02
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#3
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: not brazil,northern ireland
Posts: 763
Car(s): vts
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tb's and is there not cat 734's ? standalone too
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1st November 2008, 19:10
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#4
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L-plater
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 65
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anything with more lift than 708's and you wont have enough valve clearance with standard pistons, AND it will not idle very well with the standard inlet.
how far do you want to go, if u just want cams them go for catcams 708's. anything more then you will have to change or modify the pistons and then think about t/b's
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1st November 2008, 19:12
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#5
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 470
Car(s): Ford Ranger Pick Up
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well it depends on how big ur pocket is really, if u want ph4s or cat 715s you will be need pocketed pistons etc, plus tb's ur looking at 2-4k all fitted and setted up!
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1st November 2008, 19:47
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#6
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L-plater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lisbon Portugal
Posts: 35
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In Portugal, is put usually for the 715 with the internals stock until the date without problems!
but with a good electronic
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6th November 2008, 16:33
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#7
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L-plater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lisbon Portugal
Posts: 35
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update!
I decide to newman ph4
FIY the question...
Quote:
Hello.
I've been browsing your camshaft catalogue and I'm quite interested in your PH4 (CITVTS/280/430) cams for my Citroen Saxo VTS (TU5J4 engine, 1.6 16v).
I have some question though, that I was hoping you could help me with:
- Do the PH4 cams require any valvetrain component change, like followers, retainers, springs?
- Do the PH4 cams require pocketed pistons, or can they be used with the OE ones?
Best regards,
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Quote:
Hello .
The cams will run on the original springs and retainers,and willl run with the original pistons on a standard compression ratio.
Regards
David Newman
Newman Cams
Farnborough Way
Farnborough
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6th November 2008, 16:38
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#8
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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alot here dont use 715s after someone did a few tests and found the 708s to be the 'better' cam.
__________________
God made beer, women and Throttle bodies 
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6th November 2008, 16:46
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#9
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L-plater
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lisbon Portugal
Posts: 35
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let's see if the ph4 approving 
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6th November 2008, 16:47
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#10
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reading
Posts: 8,980
Car(s): French tin can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
alot here dont use 715s after someone did a few tests and found the 708s to be the 'better' cam.
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Are Catcam 715's similar to Newman PH4's then? What was "better" exactly?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinchysSaxo
Some say hes the biggest drug dealer in Toadville!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sax-oli
and that his dealings even stretch as far as Brazil!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
All we know is that he's called the Toad!
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6th November 2008, 16:48
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#11
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad
Are Catcam 715's similar to Newman PH4's then? What was "better" exactly?
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not looked into newmans if im honest.
I remeber when daveP went from the 715s to 708s in his tbd hillclimber, The graphs for this to explain why are on the RR somewhere.
iirc it was that the 708s produced the power with a bigger powerband, lower rpms initially and the 715s barely produced much more.
Ive not checked the graphs for ages though
__________________
God made beer, women and Throttle bodies
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6th November 2008, 17:00
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#12
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reading
Posts: 8,980
Car(s): French tin can
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I heard that 708s give a very small amount of clearance between the valves and the pistons, as little as just a couple of mm? How can you run a wilder cam profile?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinchysSaxo
Some say hes the biggest drug dealer in Toadville!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sax-oli
and that his dealings even stretch as far as Brazil!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
All we know is that he's called the Toad!
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6th November 2008, 17:03
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#13
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad
I heard that 708s give a very small amount of clearance between the valves and the pistons, as little as just a couple of mm? How can you run a wilder cam profile?
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Im just going on the data from daveP a few years back. Its why most of the RR will use 708s, and its why most people now use racelands and not gmc 4-1s.
__________________
God made beer, women and Throttle bodies
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6th November 2008, 17:12
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#14
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Saxperience Addict
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A farm shed in Aylesbury
Posts: 14,916
Car(s): Corolla AE86
Peugeot 205 B18C (in bits)
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sounds like the ph4s are similar then in spec to the 708s
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6th November 2008, 17:43
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#15
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reading
Posts: 8,980
Car(s): French tin can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
not looked into newmans if im honest.
I remeber when daveP went from the 715s to 708s in his tbd hillclimber, The graphs for this to explain why are on the RR somewhere.
iirc it was that the 708s produced the power with a bigger powerband, lower rpms initially and the 715s barely produced much more.
Ive not checked the graphs for ages though
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OK, that makes sense.
It's just that if 708s are right on the limit, I can't see how you could run a cam profile giving a higher lift (and the same duration) or a cam profile with a longer duration (and same lift) ... I assume this few mm gap you have with 708s is at the start of the intake stroke, so a longer duration cam profile would mean that the intake valve would be more open at TDC, hence the problem. An increase in lift speaks for itself... If anyone knows how this can be done, let me know, as I'm interested to learn! 
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinchysSaxo
Some say hes the biggest drug dealer in Toadville!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sax-oli
and that his dealings even stretch as far as Brazil!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
All we know is that he's called the Toad!
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