Turbo or Throttle Bodies, Pro's and Con's? Opinions..

[loudandproud205]

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Goes like shit of a shiny shovel

[dannygti]

Originally Posted by AXracing

you are missin what turbo lag is. even when a turbo is spinning and you have boost it take a long time to speed up and slow down. this is the lag. the more boost the more lag you get.

i know what turbo lag is old chap

thats response not lag,turbo engines are generally unresponsive you know this, i dont think an unresponsive engine is a bad engine, you have all that grunt to make up for it.

[Dave_P]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i said you can get up to 230bhp before you start worrying about drievtrain issues, as plenty ppl have, i never said anything would be gearbox friendly did i.

You appear to be contradicting yourself... FYI the gearbox is part of the drive train...

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i also said once above 160bhp your going to be revving high, i never said anything about running 708s at a slightly uprated rev limit, (although it may be worth noting by above 160bhp i meant above/around the 170 mark which takes you out of the ph3/708 range although its still capable of making this on ethose cams)

Above 160bhp is 161-169bhp. if you meant 170bhp or more you'd of said 170bhp or more.
If you want to run 160+ bhp n/a the fitting of 708's or similar would be required along with bodies & breathing mods etc assuming the pistons & head are std.

If you want to run larger cams you'd need to mod the pistons or buy aftermarket ones, i dont know if the OP is wanting to do that or what his budget is.

My old engine made 166bhp @ 7600rpm on 708's & Jenvey dcoe style bodies, thats not high reving and it was a reliable hillclimb car... even the gearbox was reliable.

Here's a ladder for you.

[AXracing]

At .75 bar I have seen relatively standard Saxos be reliable for years even when doing track day and quarter mile work. Biggest issue is the clutch at even this relatively low level of boost. If you are a plonker you could blow the diff apart as well. But then you can do it on a normally aspirated 1.4 if you really try. You could reasonably happily run 1 bar if your being sensible. If you have no self control and are unable to not drive like a nut then you could easily add some electronics to help. The obvious would be a dynamic electronic boost controller. Or even a basic tc system would help stop you blowing diffs. Personally I would just rebuild the box with with a stronger diff and use a good quality clutch. The lug drive kit GMC used to sell worked very well. Think he has come iup with an even better system these days. Just don't be tempted to stick great big wheels on the car if your turbo charging as this is a recopy for disaster.

There us an added advantage to bust. That is that you can make a perfectly usable road car. That only goes insane when you want it to. With a wild normally aspirated engine you very quickly get issues with mot gas test and even just generally slow speed driveability. With a normally aspirated engine you want low and close ratios. So if you to spend the cash to get a gearbox that works well with a wilder engine it very quickly becomes poor for long distance road miles. All this is why boost is becoming the norm for production cars.

That said I still like normally aspirated power more

[blackie_2k5]

i may have slightly contradicted myself there quoting you yes, BUT no one mentioned the cars bein ragged allover, and without budget etc we have to assume this is all in a perfect world, i said you could... and many have get up to 230bhp before having to worry about drivetrain issues,

you said thats crap, please back up your statement...... yes the clutch wil need to be replaced as it wont take that power, but im assuming in my statement everything is being done to a decent quality and not being bodged togther hit and hope sort of thing

i also stated once you start delving ABOVE 160bhp N/A you will start revving higher/using wilder cams, i mentioned this because i used that as my base point in the oringinal post stating quite clearly you could get to 160 bhp and have a reliable car....... but once you start aiming above that power is when you will start to incurr reliability .... i later backed this up stating ther will be plenty x and y cases where ppl have achieved more or less from diff set ups and still be reliable, many hav achieved up to 170ish with the set up you posted, but beyond that is wilder cams and higher revs limits etc..... as posted im staing commonly known/believed ideals

you also said this is also crap, yes i may have been a big vaugue by only stating above 160bhp..... but then seeing what i posted in the first sentence about 160 N/A being a reliabale set up and comparing with 230bhp on a turbo set up..... most would guess i meant somewhere inbetween those figures

also your post about being between 160bhp is 161-169 made me literally LOL...... so by your theory if i want selling a car for £1200 and someone asked is it over a grand? and i say yes..... by you logic it can only be £1001-1009? i dont think so mate, i think its you who needs a ladder

[Dave_P]

We dont live in a perfect world & everyone has a budget... stop trying to explain your way out it, your earlier comment was crap end of.

[CarlosVT]

Thank you for all the replies guys, really appreciate all the info! It's hard to choose really, a lot of people think turbo are best, others think N/A is the way forward. I should of explained properly in my first post and made it a bit clearer.

I'm looking for a good, reliable daily driver that I can also have fun with, I don't plan in going too crazy e.g. 200+ bhp. If I had a bodies set up running around 160 - 170bhp I'd be happy.

I think I could easily achieve that with the sort of set up Dave_P recommended..

Originally Posted by Dave_P

I'd say go for bodies, a sandy inlet & GSX R1000 TB's and KMS ECU & adapter for plug & play from QEP would be the most cost effective option, add 708 cat cams & raceland/saxport for 165-170bhp... a quaife atb diff would top things off nicely.

What sort of money would I be looking for a set up like that mate?

Again, appreciate all the comments so far and everyone's views. Any more comments/opinions are welcome

[ashw106rallye]

Originally Posted by CarlosVT

Thank you for all the replies guys, really appreciate all the info! It's hard to choose really, a lot of people think turbo are best, others think N/A is the way forward. I should of explained properly in my first post and made it a bit clearer.

I'm looking for a good, reliable daily driver that I can also have fun with, I don't plan in going too crazy e.g. 200+ bhp. If I had a bodies set up running around 160 - 170bhp I'd be happy.

I think I could easily achieve that with the sort of set up Dave_P recommended..



What sort of money would I be looking for a set up like that mate?

Again, appreciate all the comments so far and everyone's views. Any more comments/opinions are welcome

yea mate wot dave p sead wud be a good setup dave p's 16v rallye is fukin awsome

[Dave_P]

Originally Posted by CarlosVT

What sort of money would I be looking for a set up like that mate?

Sandy's inlet kit £500
Air filter £40+
GSX R1000 K1-3 TB's £80-£150 (ebay)
708 cat cams £200-£300 (used or new)
VEMS/KMS P&P management £400-£800+ (used or new)
Mapping £200+
Manifold & system fitted already? (Raceland/supersprint 4-2-1 & saxsport)

Quaife ATB equipped gearbox: £380-£700 (used or newly fitted in refurbed box)

Prob be a few other bits n bobs required.


Fitting? Are you handy with spanners? If not i'm sure someone locally off here would do it for you.

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by Dave_P

We dont live in a perfect world & everyone has a budget... stop trying to explain your way out it, your earlier comment was crap end of.

and we dont live in a world full of unsympathetic drivers either.... although there are many

and yet you still havent backed up your statements?.....and it doesnt look like your going to......so ok mate, you win i cba to argue

[ashw106rallye]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

and we dont live in a world full of unsympathetic drivers either.... although there are many

and yet you still havent backed up your statements?.....and it doesnt look like your going to......so ok mate, you win i cba to argue

wtf is your problem?

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by ashw106rallye

wtf is your problem?

i dont have a problem, do you?

[ashw106rallye]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i dont have a problem, do you?

nope just duno why you keep havin ago at dave?

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by ashw106rallye

nope just duno why you keep havin ago at dave?

im not having a go mate, he made some statements on the previous page and tried to be clever about something i posted, hes since carried on to do so but still hasnt backed up his statements.... its now over as far im concerned

[ashw106rallye]

ok dude lol

[dannygti]

enough of this bickering lol



ANYWAY, turbo's will always be awesome, boddies will always sound awesome and homochargers will ....errr...???

[stevo1600]

if i were you mate id defo go turbo and do the works on yur saxo, as you have had 4 you are obviously gunna want as much power as yu can squeeze out of it with reliabilty at hand.

Go the forged internals route, decent branded parts, with stand alone Ecu. And thoroughly do your research into turbo set ups. if you can build most of it yourself you will have more power than TBs. infact a hell of alot more, but with more power comes reliabilty issues, but even at say 230 bhp its still gunna be reliable aswel as a very fast car. as said b4 turbos increase bhp aswel as gearbox eating torque, so gearbox, driveshafts, clutch etc would need to be upgraded as well as balancing your cars handling and braking + safety for obv reasons.

upgrading one part of your car, generally requires another part to also be upgraded. bear that in mind.

[Rossp]

£9-10k on a TB setup will get you somewhere around 200bhp, give or take. Spend the same on a boosted setup and you'll clear 350bhp. Sure there are some differences in the delivery, but once you've been punched in the face by 30psi, you'll never look back

[Dave_P]

Originally Posted by RossDagley

£9-10k on a TB setup will get you somewhere around 200bhp, give or take

£9-10k for 200bhp, aye right! You'd have several thousand £ left over.
Come on Ross, I thought you'd know better.

[KamRacing]

you would be able to run a stroker kit as well for £10k.