Advice on turbo setups :) - Page 10 - Saxperience

dannygti · 8th February 2012, 09:34

Leon cupra R make 13psi standard.. I'd consider nowadays 10psi to be low boost.

Dozens of people have run 14psi on standard internals with no issues. Make of that what you will.. Noone would warranty or guarantee this but from past experience it can be done

Ross^p · 8th February 2012, 11:36

arp2000 rod bolts will be plenty. It's what I use on my engine

I run DP pistons (from Greece) as it's what was recommended back in the days when I believed everything that came out of the atspeed bullshit machine. They're fine pistons, but if I chose again, I'd have wossner. To be fair to the DP pistons, I've dropped a valve on one and it's still going strong.

I really doubt that you'll be holding a continuous 6psi at 60-70mph mate unless it's uphill everywhere or you've left your handbrake on! It'll be fine for now - don't stress it, just dont cook it EVERYWHERE. But do enjoy it - keep an eye on the oil/water temps and use a bit of common sense.

106TURBO · 8th February 2012, 12:11

I thought you would of went for something than wossner as gmc John was slating them a while back and I thought he was your current guru of use?

blackie_2k5 · 8th February 2012, 12:22

Just because you turbo starts spooling early doesn't mean you can't drive off boost at motorway speeds

Greedo · 8th February 2012, 12:36

Cheers for all the tips guys! Glad it'll still be drivable (at normal speeds) on the motorway without going bone up!

Anyone got a guide on changing rod bolts? Is it just a case of taking the sump off?

Greedo · 8th February 2012, 12:39

Regarding the wossner pistons, should I go for standard sized ones, or larger diameter?

dannygti · 8th February 2012, 12:50

As for rod bolts you have to take the pistons out, I tried fitting mine by just taking the sump off but you cant get to them.

As a general rule you want to go slightly oversized so you can make a proper job of the bores.

Greedo · 8th February 2012, 12:56

Be a case of boring them out if I were to go for larger diameter pistons?

Sorry for these stupid questions, it's a big learning curve! But we all start somewhere

atspeedracing · 8th February 2012, 13:05

Wiseco / DP / Pistal Racing, all the way for piston choice. Iasa also make nice pistons.
wiseco is one we often sell, we have pushed the product to extreme levels and are happy with the quality. same can be said for DP, we are using DP pistons in a few customer engines, at extreme power levels, with no issues.

wossner - we wont sell them, and advise against using them.
our reasons from personal findings: no anti det grooves, no gas expansion groove, sharp edges, quality varies from batch to batch - no consistency with them. sometimes you see them, the crown design is reasonable, other times its horrific. but they are made to a price, and that price if often whoever is offering the cheapest castings at the time. on more than one occasion we find leftover swarf stuck in the ring lands from machining... not very good for a "precision" product imo, so not something we are able to recommend.

- colin.

jsdvtr · 8th February 2012, 15:18

Does anyone know if its possible to run a oil cooler sandwich plate and a small oil filter with a dp mani/downpipe?

Also the screw to bolt into the engine as the one i have is too small by looks of it, where can i get the correct one from to fit?

Ross^p · 8th February 2012, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Does anyone know if its possible to run a oil cooler sandwich plate and a small oil filter with a dp mani/downpipe?

Also the screw to bolt into the engine as the one i have is too small by looks of it, where can i get the correct one from to fit?

no it's not. You can just about get a small filter in there without the sandwich plate. With the plate the filter touches the manifold. Get a remote filter kit as part of your hosework for the oil cooler - it doesn't add much to the cost and it's easy to fit.

axsaxoman · 8th February 2012, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by 106TURBO

I thought you would of went for something than wossner as gmc John was slating them a while back and I thought he was your current guru of use?

I have never slated woosner pistons ,yes i have had my own shape of piston made by wossner that was for other reasons,but over the years i have had many different shapes made by omega , cosworth ,wossner ,dp, and JE.

dp pistons I had wrist pins break in the middle and they would doing nothing ,so if i were to slag a piston maker it would be Dp.
i have had JE pistons where they did not make them with specified clearance I aked for which caused problems ,but you don,t see me slagging them on the forums .
I can safely say i have detroyed probably every make of piston ever made for a saxo at some point and the differences bewtween them is not that much to make the difference to reliability when fitted with correctly gapped rings
there is no piston maker that will supplypistons you rings perfectly gapped -ready to drop in the bore-its impossible as bores will be diferent due to age and usage,you must check and make them correct
If i were to pick a "best " piston maker it would be Omega ,but their long delvery times and needing to but 10sets to get a good price is what made me stop stocking omega and move over to wossner .
but if you want omega we can still supply
the saxo engine market is a budget sensitve market and as such wossner fit in there well.

stevo1600 · 8th February 2012, 15:26

you should run a remote oil filter and oil cooler kit. not sure if it would be tight on the dp gear. look at some google pics for a better idea.

thread size can be found in the stickys iirc. and should be available from ebay

axsaxoman · 8th February 2012, 15:50

[QUOTE=dannygti;5800897]Leon cupra R make 13psi standard.. I'd consider nowadays 10psi to be low boost.

Dozens of people have run 14psi on standard internals with no issues. Make of that what you will.. Noone would warranty or guarantee this but from past experience it can be done[/QUOT]
Leon will have either forged pistons as std and they will be totally dif design to a non boosted piston with different size rings and crown thickness etc

this is the main reason that you fit forged pistons , made from different material ,different design ,differnt piston rings and stronger crowns .
I laugh to myself when i see people getting all wound up about comp ratios and fitting decomp plates etc ,when its not the answer .
to the basic problem .
I am quite sure with CORRECT ecu mods /ecu system you can run 7 psi on std comp ratio + std pistons with a turbo
we have done it many times with s/c cars ,so if turbo,s are a problem then it must be down to the way they are set -up and not comp ratio,or inlet temps are too high and the ecu is not compensating for the temp changes in ign + fuelling settings
eventualy they will fail ,due to the design issues .
making it low comp is not addressing the problem an just makes it dull when off boost,
it is just a bodge up to get round fitting proper ecu system and mapping it correctly for the boost level chosen.
and as for decomp plates --waste of money -just fit multiple mls h/gaskets done it maytimes with never a failure ,if you must use std pistons and want to lower the comp.
same goes for ARP h/bolts and nuts and using copper gaskets --the engine was designed to run strech bolts and ovetightening ,which is what you are doing with studs + nuts,as it does not allow for the expansion of the head when hot just stresses the block,and its a weak enough block to start with
I can hear the disbelief --ok then check your cam belt when cold + then when hot and see how much it tightens --that the head expanding ,which is why you use strech bolts to allow this to happen with overstressing the head fixing threads (the block) and to keep same tension on h/gasker when it cools down
its not as though you are running 4bar of boost +nitrous

dannygti · 8th February 2012, 16:12

John, you don't use stretch bolts to allow for the head expanding, ALL bolts/studs stretch this is what gives then their clamping force. A bolt will stretch and go back to it's original length thousands of times unless you yield it. The reason they give you a torque figure then an angle ie 265deg is so you yield the bolt but don't break it. The bolt has it's maximum clamping force after it's yielded but before it snaps.
Arp bolts will be made of a different material (obv) and the MOST important part of the ARP bolt kit is the washers and the lubricant, this allows more clamping force (due to grip length changed by the washers) and the lubricant helps put in the same load at a lower torque. Due to this you don't have to yield the bolt hence being able to re use them.

blackie_2k5 · 8th February 2012, 17:01

PlUs point of decomp is that it's re useable, head gaskets aren't, no one plans to have the head off time and time again,

But at least if you spend out on a decomp then you dont have to waste multiple gaskets every time you take the head off

Ross^p · 8th February 2012, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

PlUs point of decomp is that it's re useable, head gaskets aren't, no one plans to have the head off time and time again,

But at least if you spend out on a decomp then you dont have to waste multiple gaskets every time you take the head off

Equally a decomp is what? £250? You'd be replacing a single gasket every time you had the head off with a decomp plate anyway... so by that logic you'd need to have the head off 5+ times for a decomp to be more cost effective...

dannygti · 8th February 2012, 17:27

Decomp plate is just over £100 if you use ferriday engineering

jsdvtr · 8th February 2012, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

no it's not. You can just about get a small filter in there without the sandwich plate. With the plate the filter touches the manifold. Get a remote filter kit as part of your hosework for the oil cooler - it doesn't add much to the cost and it's easy to fit.

Ok, I do plan on going for a remote filter seup just wasnt sure if it fitted or not.

Also where can a water feed be ran from to a turbo? Am i right that i have seen people use the small hose coming out of the side of the head thats comes forward? put a t peice into that and then a return into bottom radiator hose?

Ross^p · 8th February 2012, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Also where can a water feed be ran from to a turbo? Am i right that i have seen people use the small hose coming out of the side of the head thats comes forward? put a t peice into that and then a return into bottom radiator hose?

Most I've seen (and my old setup) T into the heater matrix pipework, in and out. Benefits include faster heater warmup (colder months).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Decomp plate is just over £100 if you use ferriday engineering

So just 2 head changes then