DJ's who have tracks engineered for them ? WTF. - Page 2 - Saxperience

Manu · 14th March 2013, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

On the subject of deeply idiotic statements , Manu rears it's ugly head !

DJ's are Technicians NOT Musicians

FFS , they have smoke machines in their kitlist !

Both those video's demonstrate a technical mastering of electrical equipement , that's all !

There is no musical talent there at all , a keen ear , yes , an ability to match a beat , yes . Mind you , you're all using beatcounters these days most bits of gear have bpm counters !

It's comical really , I've been producing music for twenty five years , since the dawn of the first home computers.

So knocking out a remix of someone else's shit , is no different to getting another person to knock you up a track and you saying it's yours !

I await the usual torrent of juvenile response

Do I make the point if I use bigger letters? A "technical mastering of electrical equipement , that's all". That is such a weird way to put it.

If you kept up to date, DJ now use hazers, the aim being to accentuate the effects of lighting. The problem with oil based smoke machines is that they trigger most smoke and fire alarms. And for instance, if you did not have such things in places like say, a club. Or say in that first video, the World DMC finals... Well it would look a big dull. So I'm not sure about your "FFS , they have smoke machines in their kitlist !" statement.

Now onto your beat counting and whatnot. Not entirely true either, I know a shitload of DJs who are very keen on using their ears rather than watching a BPM counter.

Quote:

It's comical really , I've been producing music for twenty five years , since the dawn of the first home computers.

That's good, I'm impressed. No, really. Though computer music started a little earlier, and the actual dawn was during the Renaissance when a new trend came out about playing "mechanical", and the emergence of mechanical machines that would play music by themselves.

Quote:

So knocking out a remix of someone else's shit , is no different to getting another person to knock you up a track and you saying it's yours !

When people do that, they tend to add the word "remix" with their name next to it. Take the Tiesto case for instance: he released Adaggio for strings, and Barber wasn't even mentioned anywhere. Some geezer called Squealex has a team of ghosts producers. Yes it's bad, but do people care?

No, because at the end of the day there's always that extra band member called the sound engineer. It's not their material, but they made the sound, made the pre and post editing, made the mastering and overall called the shots.

Quote:

I await the usual torrent of juvenile response

I'm afraid I cannot provide the juvenile bit my friend, at the end of the day I've been making music for 30 years

Since you seem interested in that matter, I would suggest you to read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Cultur.../dp/0826416152

Aaaaand you can also watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=bj1r6u8zLPo

Have a look at that guy called DJ Shadow, see him play. I'd love to witness you go to his face and say he's a BPM rider and there is no such thing as artist DJs.

SH1TBIRD · 14th March 2013, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manu

Do I make the point if I use bigger letters? A "technical mastering of electrical equipement , that's all". That is such a weird way to put it.

If you kept up to date, DJ now use hazers, the aim being to accentuate the effects of lighting. The problem with oil based smoke machines is that they trigger most smoke and fire alarms. And for instance, if you did not have such things in places like say, a club. Or say in that first video, the World DMC finals... Well it would look a big dull. So I'm not sure about your "FFS , they have smoke machines in their kitlist !" statement.

Now onto your beat counting and whatnot. Not entirely true either, I know a shitload of DJs who are very keen on using their ears rather than watching a BPM counter.

That's good, I'm impressed. No, really. Though computer music started a little earlier, and the actual dawn was during the Renaissance when a new trend came out about playing "mechanical", and the emergence of mechanical machines that would play music by themselves.

When people do that, they tend to add the word "remix" with their name next to it. Take the Tiesto case for instance: he released Adaggio for strings, and Barber wasn't even mentioned anywhere. Some geezer called Squealex has a team of ghosts producers. Yes it's bad, but do people care?

No, because at the end of the day there's always that extra band member called the sound engineer. It's not their material, but they made the sound, made the pre and post editing, made the mastering and overall called the shots.

I'm afraid I cannot provide the juvenile bit my friend, at the end of the day I've been making music for 30 years

Since you seem interested in that matter, I would suggest you to read this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Cultur.../dp/0826416152

Aaaaand you can also watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=bj1r6u8zLPo

Have a look at that guy called DJ Shadow, see him play. I'd love to witness you go to his face (just before he gets booo'd off stage again) and say he's a BPM rider and there is no such thing as artist DJs.

Manu · 14th March 2013, 10:23

Nice sneaky editing and clever use of smilies, you definitely made a strong point. But please feel free to expand on it.

I was wondering if you could copy and paste links to your soundcloud account, or whatever else you may use to store your 25 year strong musical genius. That would highlight your achievements, Mr. Bird.

D1zzyman · 14th March 2013, 10:49

i would never have some one produce for me, unless its a collaboration then that's a different story.how ever i do frequently ask my sister for help with mixing and mastering. everything else is based on trial & error.

also i have this annoying problem of not completing my tracks. i find my self moving on to the next song too frequently, any producers on here have this problem ?

SH1TBIRD · 14th March 2013, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manu

Nice sneaky editing and clever use of smilies, you definitely made a strong point. But please feel free to expand on it.

I was wondering if you could copy and paste links to your soundcloud account, or whatever else you may use to store your 25 year strong musical genius. That would highlight your achievements, Mr. Bird.

Mr Manu , please address me from now onwards as Mr S.Bird , I thank you !

I do not claim to be a musical genius , and I certainly do not feel the need to , prove myself and my achievements , here for you today .

This is a public forum , for expressing ones opinion on a subject that has been raised , and I am quite free to do so

How amusing it is , that you feel the need for playground tactics , in calling me out !

Share the wealth of knowledge and experience , there is always someone out there that knows more than you do .

As for DJ Shadow , I've followed his work from the start , and I find his work most enjoyable !

Quote:

Originally Posted by D1zzyman

i would never have some one produce for me, unless its a collaboration then that's a different story.how ever i do frequently ask my sister for help with mixing and mastering. everything else is based on trial & error.

also i have this annoying problem of not completing my tracks. i find my self moving on to the next song too frequently, any producers on here have this problem ?

I think most if not all producers suffer with the same problem from time to time . For me , the key is to go back to those projects at a later date , and with a fresh approach , pick up where you left off . But the thing is its a good gauge of your progress too , so I have always kept everything , never deleting anything . Because it will no doubt inspire something better which will get and end result . Just keep at it , the problem will pass

Manu · 14th March 2013, 16:07

suit yourself.

Ross^p · 14th March 2013, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

Mr Manu , please address me from now onwards as Mr S.Bird , I thank you !

Or Tony. As we're clearly getting informal.

Carlvtr88 · 14th March 2013, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

You could argue why bands such as the Rolling Stones have sound engineers

Not really the same thing though Ryan. I know you accept that some things you can't do all yourself. There has to be a helping hand. However, at least a band are creating the musical ideas and rhythm, to EQ and process it for commercial purposes is standard.

I find that massively different to actually buying a piece of work, completely created by someone else then passing it off as your own.

It's like buying a nice modded Saxo and telling everyone you modded it yourself.

Carlvtr88 · 14th March 2013, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by D1zzyman

i would never have some one produce for me, unless its a collaboration then that's a different story.how ever i do frequently ask my sister for help with mixing and mastering. everything else is based on trial & error.

also i have this annoying problem of not completing my tracks. i find my self moving on to the next song too frequently, any producers on here have this problem ?

See.

Whilst you, " Mr Bird and Manu", raised your debate ( which I found interesting ) as i've said, We're kinda going off topic.

This Dizzyman fella has nailed it.
Everyone has troubles with it, its a creative subject and from time to time, life catches up and you ( for one reason

or another ) may have creative blocks and such.
But when he said its all based on trial and error. Spot on

and this is my point.

Why do people feel the need to have a engineer do all the work for them and not persist and learn the fucking subject they wan't to be a part of.

SH1TBIRD · 14th March 2013, 18:22

Yeah , you're right it had gone a little off track

So much so that a Moderator thought it necessary
to publish my name , what's that all about ?

Ross^p · 14th March 2013, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

Yeah , you're right it had gone a little off track

So much so that a Moderator thought it necessary
to publish my name , what's that all about ?

What's what about? I published it? No Tonee* - YOU published it.

*clue here.

Ryan^p · 14th March 2013, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlvtr88

Not really the same thing though Ryan. I know you accept that some things you can't do all yourself. There has to be a helping hand. However, at least a band are creating the musical ideas and rhythm, to EQ and process it for commercial purposes is standard.

I find that massively different to actually buying a piece of work, completely created by someone else then passing it off as your own.

It's like buying a nice modded Saxo and telling everyone you modded it yourself.

Because its not quite as simple as buying a piece of music and saying its yours. Most use engineers, as I mentioned dave parkinson is very busy these days working on tracks with big names.

Some artists like sasha now admit that having an engineer helps them complete a track in a couple of days as opposed to weeks.

At the high end I can see why people do have engineers, especially when under pressure to meet a deadline from a label. Heck ive known people given a day or two to have a remix done for release on an EP.

Outside of this, people do use ready made drum loops for example, they then integrate this into a track they create. Now im going into more detail than you probably wanted but im saying its not a simple case of black and white.

Just to annoy everyone im meeting with a friend whos going to engineer for me, Go me haha!

SH1TBIRD · 14th March 2013, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

What's what about? I published it? No Tonee* - YOU published it.

*clue here.

So ....... what appears to be a friendly environment on the outside , is vastly different , once you express your opinion and that opinion differs to one of the Moderators mate's , yeah ?

What are you , the Fuzz or summat ?

You're not really showing the forum in good light this way , if that's how a Moderator behaves , in my opinion .

Ross^p · 14th March 2013, 20:41

Fuck me you've blown this so far out of proportion you now look silly my old sausage.

I don't give two shits if you argue with Ryan, other mods, or anyone in general. You've taken me, making a reference to your real name, a name you gave out freely on the Internet, and you want to turn it into how we're all in it together, ganging up on poor little tony.

Suggest you go and pm a guy in here called "wheresmynuts" - he's pretty big into conspiracy theories too.

Your presumptions are wrong. End of.

SH1TBIRD · 14th March 2013, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Fuck me you've blown this so far out of proportion you now look silly my old sausage.

I don't give two shits if you argue with Ryan, other mods, or anyone in general. You've taken me, making a reference to your real name, a name you gave out freely on the Internet, and you want to turn it into how we're all in it together, ganging up on poor little tony.

Suggest you go and pm a guy in here called "wheresmynuts" - he's pretty big into conspiracy theories too.

Your presumptions are wrong. End of.

Nope , I have not blown anything out of proportion ,
I am simply questioning the validity of your actions ,
and merely suggesting your inappropriate behavior
as Moderator in posting as you have done !

For what good reason would you ?

LOL @ "wheresmynuts" , good one

Carlvtr88 · 14th March 2013, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Because its not quite as simple as buying a piece of music and saying its yours. Most use engineers, as I mentioned dave parkinson is very busy these days working on tracks with big names.

Some artists like sasha now admit that having an engineer helps them complete a track in a couple of days as opposed to weeks.

At the high end I can see why people do have engineers, especially when under pressure to meet a deadline from a label. Heck ive known people given a day or two to have a remix done for release on an EP.

Outside of this, people do use ready made drum loops for example, they then integrate this into a track they create. Now im going into more detail than you probably wanted but im saying its not a simple case of black and white.

Just to annoy everyone im meeting with a friend whos going to engineer for me, Go me haha!

Fuck you dude. Fuck you lol.

An engineer as an assistant is different to my point though mate. There are people who literally send billy bob some cash and he sends them a tune. Then you find out this dude is being booked on the basis of a track that he didn't make.

What I cant get my head around is how they can portray that as their own creation without feeling like they're lying to (a) the listener and (b) themselves.

Ross^p · 14th March 2013, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SH1TBIRD

Nope , I have not blown anything out of proportion ,
I am simply questioning the validity of your actions ,
and merely suggesting your inappropriate behavior
as Moderator in posting as you have done !

For what good reason would you ?

LOL @ "wheresmynuts" , good one

Humour me. What actions? What inappropriate behaviour?

Where is the heinous crimes I've committed?

Manu · 15th March 2013, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlvtr88

Why do people feel the need to have a engineer do all the work for them and not persist and learn the fucking subject they wan't to be a part of.

Geezers like skrillex or david monkeytta are in and out of planes most of the time and producing on a laptop while commuting. When it comes to engineering the stuff, you need a little more gear than that, and a quiet space. Plus the time to sit down and do some actual sound quality engineer stuff with the sound engineer. You can't do that in a car, plane etc. So the work effectively is: produce the track, put all the creative ideas down then send all that to the engineer. The end, and I don't see the problem with that since I lost counts of bands, acts and artists that rely on a sound engineer in order to make it sound good.

I did quite a few engineering jobs, purely because the producer/band did not have the tools (including recording gear + recording booth+studio equipment) and/or knowledge + experience to make their track sound like a finished, professional product. Some artists do not have a single clue how to do it or even where to begin. I have also worked with some people who live on the other side of the globe so it's not like you can sit next to them (add the problem of different time zones to that) and show them what works and what doesn't. So far I had only one instance of a producer flying to England (and see his family) over the christmas period, so we had a one day window to work together then I could finish the job on my own and send him a master CD to his hotel within the next 24 hours.

And it's not necessarily doing all the work, only making their production sounding clear, loud, dynamic and punchy. I did sometimes have my say on some editing and suggested a longer bridge, shorter outro, another layer of sound here more percussion there etc.. Mostly things like that but that's about it, the full creative process and approval is strictly down to the producer. It is a true collaboration, and if it you don't come back with a satisfactory result well, you don't get paid.

Now when you do a full remix job, it's a different ball game. You have to somewhat preserve the original idea while slapping your own style on top of it.

:edit: *Wheresmenuts

Giraffe · 15th March 2013, 10:43

SH1TBIRD seems like (meaning is) a twat, and for once, and I mean only for once, I'd say Manu is making a much better point and putting his opinion across quite well.

That's my input. I'm out.

SH1TBIRD · 15th March 2013, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giraffe

SH1TBIRD seems like (meaning is) a twat, and for once, and I mean only for once, I'd say Manu is making a much better point and putting his opinion across quite well.

That's my input. I'm out.

Hahahaha , you've got some neck calling me a twat ,

You Twat You !