Saxo Brakes / Suspension / Transmission / Tyres If you have queries or information to share regarding Saxo braking, suspension, tyres or transmission systems, please discuss this within this forum. |
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21st September 2012, 17:19
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#21
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge(ish), UK.
Posts: 10,581
Car(s): BMW 5x M50d.
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Just been researching this - the 205 1.8 GRD diesel has a 3.471 FD. Using my existing ratios gives the exact results (pretty much) I want so that seems to be the best option. Just a crownwheel/pinion change too. Gives me a theoretical top speed of 178mph, but maintains the powerband I have currently and doesn't dump me out of any power on changes.
I need to be careful though - a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! I'm bound to be over simplifying it!
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21st September 2012, 20:05
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#22
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire
Posts: 469
Car(s): 374 bhp Supercharged 205 GTI,
Passat Estate
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Im the same Ross.
I understand the workings of a box and built my last MA with quaife gearset and lsd. Its all the tech stuff, final drives and ratios spin me out!!
If i go for a gearkit ill just ask for the longest ratios possible?? even these will be way shorter than a standard box?
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21st September 2012, 20:12
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#23
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge(ish), UK.
Posts: 10,581
Car(s): BMW 5x M50d.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsi16v
Im the same Ross.
I understand the workings of a box and built my last MA with quaife gearset and lsd. Its all the tech stuff, final drives and ratios spin me out!!
If i go for a gearkit ill just ask for the longest ratios possible?? even these will be way shorter than a standard box?
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Have you seen this (sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here!):
http://www.rallyparts.co.uk/peugeot/...ug_gearing.xls
You can fiddle around with the stock ratios from many pug boxes, and come up with something you want. In my case, the FD is all I think I need to change. Possibly 5th also, but I'll try the FD only first
Lots more reading for me to do over the weekend for sure!
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21st September 2012, 20:24
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#24
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: dudley United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 6,789
Car(s): 106 gti/ SEAT LCR
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Do not believe it when people say a close ratio gearset won't help with a turbo car for track work. You can still work a close ratio gearset to your favour it just means you will have a ling first gear.. Not such a problem with high output engines
__________________
Boost pressure is underrated
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21st September 2012, 20:27
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#25
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire
Posts: 469
Car(s): 374 bhp Supercharged 205 GTI,
Passat Estate
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some useful info there.
If you went for a quaife gearkit all that would be out the window as you would be using there final drive options?.
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21st September 2012, 20:37
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#26
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Saxperience Post Whore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: dudley United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 6,789
Car(s): 106 gti/ SEAT LCR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsi16v
some useful info there.
If you went for a quaife gearkit all that would be out the window as you would be using there final drive options?.
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Really to optimise you need a power graph, then you can work out..
I think you can mix standard final drives, which can help as there's normally 'y'all' ones from diesels that could work well with a gearkit and boost
__________________
Boost pressure is underrated
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21st September 2012, 20:58
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#27
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Frequent Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 591
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I would love a Long first gear,
Launching in 2nd is slightly annoying,
What's the fd of the standard Picasso box a I haven't had it apart just yet.
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21st September 2012, 21:16
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#28
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Regular Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire
Posts: 469
Car(s): 374 bhp Supercharged 205 GTI,
Passat Estate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannygti
Really to optimise you need a power graph, then you can work out..
I think you can mix standard final drives, which can help as there's normally 'y'all' ones from diesels that could work well with a gearkit and boost
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Work your magic
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21st September 2012, 21:29
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#29
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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ross i have an excel file with most of the BE range ratios
i built a box last year thats a Diesel gearkit and FD but xsara/gti6 1st as the diesel one is way too low
the problem i had was with the boost not coming in untill 4k and wheel spin at the top of the rev range 1 and second were so long they dropped me off boost hence the terrible 1/4 mile 1st 8th
thats part of the reason i now have the BE4/3/6 hybrid (6 speed is a tight fit)
the top speed on the spreadsheet of my old box was 178mph@7400
i got to 152 but bottled it as it wasnt on my private road
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21st September 2012, 21:31
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#30
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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('box/FD) 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th FD
205 Diesel 1.8 GRD 3.31 1.88 1.28 0.97 0.76 3.47
205 GTI 1.6/1.6 3.31 1.88 1.36 1.07 0.87 4.06
205 GTI 1.6/1.9 3.31 1.88 1.36 1.07 0.87 3.69
205 GTI 1.6/mi16 3.31 1.88 1.36 1.07 0.87 4.43
205 GTI 1.9 Gutmann 2.92 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.81 3.94
205 GTI 1.9/1.6 2.92 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.87 4.06
205 GTI 1.9/1.9 2.92 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.87 3.69
205 GTI 1.9/mi16 2.92 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.87 4.43
206 GTI 180 2.92 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.87 3.69
306 GTI/S16 2.92 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.43
306 gti6/gti6 2.92 1.87 1.41 1.15 0.95 0.80 4.05
309 GTI16 (90-91) 2.92 1.85 1.28 1.03 0.76 4.43
309 GTI16 (92-93) 3.42 1.95 1.36 1.05 0.85 4.43
405 1.6 carb 3.25 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.19
405 1.9 carb 3.25 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.06
405 SRI / 1.6 GTI C/R 3.31 1.88 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.06
405 T16 3.42 1.82 1.25 0.97 0.77 3.93
mi16/1.6 2.92 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.06
mi16/1.9 2.92 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 3.69
mi16/mi16 2.92 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.43
Xantia 2.0 SX 3.46 1.36 1.07 0.80 0.76 4.06
Xantia VSX (s16) 3.46 1.87 1.36 1.07 0.80 4.27
Xsara VTS 2.92 1.86 1.28 0.95 0.74 4.43
ZX (CB) 3.42 1.81 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.29
ZX (CL&CJ) 3.46 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.87 3.75
ZX 16v 2.92 1.85 1.28 0.97 0.76 4.43
ZX Volcane 2.0i 3.46 1.85 1.36 1.07 0.87 3.59
Quaife Gearset (4.77 FD) 2.69 1.93 1.44 1.14 0.95 4.79
Quaife Gearset (4.4 FD) 2.69 1.93 1.44 1.14 0.95 4.40
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21st September 2012, 21:33
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#31
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/inforatios.html
you can use this tool to pick the right gears to use
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21st September 2012, 21:58
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#32
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge(ish), UK.
Posts: 10,581
Car(s): BMW 5x M50d.
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Thanks Martin, appreciated
I obviously love the idea of the 6 speed but it's not realistic is it lol.
My torque curve now is awesome tbh - just how I'd like it. (full torque pretty much solid from 4750 - 7250). I've a real nice spread of power across a good rev range, so if I drop 1500rpm between gears, it doesn't matter. I don't need close ratio or any of that jazz.
I think for strength though if I go with any "stock" components they need to be shotpeened or cryo or whatever.
Doesn't help I've no mechanical sympathy at all - rather prepare now!
Last edited by Ross; 21st September 2012 at 22:01.
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21st September 2012, 22:13
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#33
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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6 speed is realistic, i have one in the AX
the 6 speed also has a 4.05 FD
i worked out my last box with the calculator tool and speked the perfect box but didnt antisipate wheel spin which fucked up the whole box, a 1500 rpm change should work ok even with wheelspin
is 4750 not a bit late for the torque?? mine went from 4200 to 7400 and i hated the lag
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21st September 2012, 22:15
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#34
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge(ish), UK.
Posts: 10,581
Car(s): BMW 5x M50d.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeqd
6 speed is realistic, i have one in the AX
the 6 speed also has a 4.05 FD
i worked out my last box with the calculator tool and speked the perfect box but didnt antisipate wheel spin which fucked up the whole box, a 1500 rpm change should work ok even with wheelspin
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Ok, you're actually a wanker for making me think of that...
If it fits in the AX, I should have room for two in the 106...
Here's the graph from the last session - it drives really well tbh, so I'm not disappointed! For sure a million percent improvement on the gt30!
Last edited by Ross; 21st September 2012 at 22:18.
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21st September 2012, 22:22
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#35
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Established Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 1,542
Car(s): AX GT 16v turbo 6 speed with NOS
205 gti6
E 320
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it fits but its but not a straight fit lol
ill get some pics of it fitted on sunday
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21st September 2012, 22:23
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#36
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge(ish), UK.
Posts: 10,581
Car(s): BMW 5x M50d.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeqd
it fits but its but not a straight fit lol
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haha epic. Reminds me of the V8 mini classic. Technically "fits" you just have to stretch your definition of "fit"
Please do mate - very interested to see the chassis leg reinforcement etc.
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21st September 2012, 23:07
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#37
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Saxperience Hardcore!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Birtley
Posts: 22,253
Car(s): VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
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nice bit if reinforcement should even out the weight distribution a bit as well
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stissy
EDIT: i give up on you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giraffe
FUCK YES. I won on the internet.
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21st September 2012, 23:50
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#38
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tonbridge United Kingdom (England)
Posts: 38,236
Car(s): Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
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Told you about the chassis notching ross
__________________
God made beer, women and Throttle bodies
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21st September 2012, 23:50
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#39
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge(ish), UK.
Posts: 10,581
Car(s): BMW 5x M50d.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
Told you about the chassis notching ross
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What is this, fucking peer pressure?
PS ^ is not a "notch" lol
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22nd September 2012, 09:34
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#40
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Saxperience Forum Bum
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 3,074
Car(s): ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
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How close to the tyre does it go?
Have seen one in pics before, was there much modding needed to the bellhousing to allow for the selectors to move fully?
Shame there's only 3.95 and 4.06 that fits originally though there are some available from bacci romano but not cheap at all and more rally orientated.
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