2 different ways of lowering a torsion bar...what are they?? - Saxperience

Goldsax · 15th March 2012, 23:34

Ive been reading alot of 'spline method fucks rear beam'...what its the spline method?? the ways ive always done it is:

Remove bars fully...
Raise/lower arm to desired height
Put bars back in

I belive this is the right way...

How is the wrong way? :s x

Bedford126 · 16th March 2012, 00:25

Take the full trailing arm off with the torsion bar and rotate the splines 1 notch =20mm 2 = 40 then refit. Totally the wrong way to do it and fucks your beam up in no time at all.

Prickle^p · 16th March 2012, 00:27

How? (just wondering)

LSOfreak · 16th March 2012, 00:38

it disturbs the seal so that your beam gets moisture in it and eventually fails.

Its usually the oldschool mechanics and garages which adopt this method i find....
Ive never really understood the 'notch' method tbh, surely its no easier as the proper way as you still have to free off the torsion bar from one end anyway?

Apparently the notch method is quite innaccurate aswell, as youre not really sure the exact amount its lowered by. One side could be 5mm lower than required, and the other being 5mm higher than required, resulting in a 10mm difference from each side.

Also i think 1 notch is about 35/40mm and 2 notches is about 80mm

Monkgti · 16th March 2012, 01:29

thats the way ive always done it aswell, removing the bars fully, ive never actually seen or heard of anyone i know doing it the other way.. is the only reason it does harm because your pulling out the arm on the shaft to do it rather than just moving the arm up or down?? surely if thats the case it will only do harm if the seals are damaged or somthing or the arm is not pushed back in fully???

Goldsax · 16th March 2012, 01:33

So your saying the wrong method you leave the torsion bar IN the arm and just free it from the axle end? As appose to taking the bar OUT of the arm and axle?? Seems like an easier way if this is so then as you don't have to fanny around with the stupid washers...but having said this, the washers for the axle side are a the hardest 2 too get at...so for the sake of 5mins taking them out of the arm and not leaving them in is worth it for the life of your beam?? Glad I've always done it the right way then haha, cheers for clearing this up guys

Bwake92 · 16th March 2012, 10:07

take it to garage! lol

saxo-parts · 16th March 2012, 10:47

surely just frreing one of the torsion bar off and twisting it round a notch or whatever will also pre-stress the bar leading to a shit ride quality? as said before, its still all got to come apart, why not just do it the right way and take the bars out altogether?

Gareth_R · 16th March 2012, 11:27

it doesnt pre stress the torsion bars, that part of it is a bit of a myth

the seals on these are quite temperamental so once disturbed it is best to replace - obviously people dont do this when doing the spline method

also, there are two bearings, one on the inside, then a spacer, then one on the outside. When you use the notch method you rotate the arm on only one of the bearings, and its not humanly possible to do that and keep it perfectly aligned with the centre of rotation. The bearings asre also very temperamental (fucking PSA shit) and that kind of uneven stress will damage them and then you'll have play in the bearings which will only get worse.

PLUS you can only adjust in 40mm intervals. With the proper method you can adjust in 3mm intervals

This all together is why the notch method is wank.

Monkgti · 16th March 2012, 12:40

how would you only rotate the arm on one of the bearings by the notch method?? the 2 bearings are in the arm so once the arm is rotated the 2 bearing rings have to move with it wether it be the notch method or removing the torsion bar fully your still rotating the arm to lower the car??

saxo-parts · 16th March 2012, 14:37

how can it not pre-stress the bars? the whole principle of a torsion bar is that the spring effect is down to it twisting along its length. if you rotate the arm and leave one end in its fixed place, its pre-twisting the bar,hence pre-loading it, a lot like pre-compressing a coil spring

Gareth_R · 16th March 2012, 14:37

because when you pull the arm half off in the notch method one of the bearings isnt in contact with the stub pin anymore

Gareth_R · 16th March 2012, 14:41

not quite Mandy, one end remains fixed, the other is free from the beam so when you move the arm round its just finding the next suitable height for that position

Theres no greater stress on the torsion bars themselves from lowering the notch method compared to the proper way. Everything else about the notch method is shit though!

saxo-parts · 16th March 2012, 14:44

notches is a method i'm not faliar with so just wondered lol, never have,and never will lower a car like that, seen the outcome from other peoples bodge jobs far too often!

Gareth_R · 16th March 2012, 14:49

the only reason I tried to figure it all out is because when i refurbed my beam i just pulled the whole thing to pieces and then though 'shit what goes where?!' so wanted to understand it all properly so i didnt break it!

Monkgti · 16th March 2012, 15:38

but why would it matter that its off the stub when rotating? its still going to go back at the same point that it would be if you lowered it to the same height without pulling out the arm?? the bearings roll on the stub they dont move with it as they are pressed in the arm so they will always stay in the same position in the arm unless they are loose in it...

And yes, it cannot pre-tension the bar as its only fixed at 1 side, to have the bar twisted or pre-loaded you would have to be moving the arm with the bar fixed at both ends!!

Gareth_R · 16th March 2012, 18:09

because the bearings are a poor design, and the weight of the arm when moving it about will take it off centre, putting a load of stress on the bearing thats still on the stub pin, resulting in movement in them

This pic illustrates where the stress and movement would be, it really doesnt take alot to fuck these bearings up, they're wank, there's hardly any contact surface between them and the stub pin, and any movement in the bearing will decrease that alot

slightly exaggerated, or possibly not considering you'll be balancing it whilst trying to shove the torsion bar in at the other end

Gareth_R · 16th March 2012, 18:15

This is what the bearings look like, and trust me theres loads of movement in them as standard. its only keeping them square to the pin and free of water and dirt that stops them fucking up. Once the seal is broken or you start moving them around they damage quickly

Monkgti · 16th March 2012, 20:33

oh i know the look of them too well by now, had to rebuild the axel in every saxo/106 ive bought

i just didnt know how you meant sliding it out would damage them! i understand now by the pics, but in the same position as that it is possible then to fu*k the bearngs when actually putting the beam back together after having the arms off rebuilding it!

Gareth_R · 18th March 2012, 00:40

yeah you could quite easily. But when rebuilding a beam, just putting the arm back on with loads of grease keeping it square as possible is the best way, and you can feel resistance if its going off centre. Once its on properly it'll stay square and then you can get the torsion bar fitted afterwards