New VTS - CS02 VTS

[smokeandpoke]

Another quick one - will a proper oem gear stick fit back on, thought they were pretty solid on there but never tried to remove it on the vtr, not a fan of the 'crashed into halfords' look

Failing that, what are some aesthetically pleasing alternatives?

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[smokeandpoke]

UPDATE

I gave up trying to repair the head - for the same price it would have been to have it helicoiled, I bought a JP4S from a C2, 48,000 miles, full service history, two sympathetic owners from new.

It had sat for a while, tappets were a bit rattly at first but soon quietened down.

I took the head off this engine, removed the head from my engine and the valves are currently being lapped in on the JP4 ready to fit the J4 springs, tappets and cams.


It's been a long time in the works, and having had it running once already it'll be super frustrating if something isn't right and it doesn't want to start.
The only concern I have is the sensors, but being a late (57) C2, the sensors are all apparently plug and play so should not be a problem.

Once we've finished building the head back up, I will dry fit and turn the engine over trying two different gaskets - the C2 and saxo ones.
This is to check valve clearance and also to gauge whether using a saxo headgasket, which is considerably thicker than the C2 gasket, will run okay on standard management, as this will be excellent preparation for turbo time as I will have the lower compression.

I intend to measure and calculate my compression ratios with both gaskets, and make a decision from there.

I have sourced numerous turbos for reasonable money, Adam has vowed to sort me out with his old build parts, failing that I have a friend near me that has suggested using his turbo from his Fiesta turbo.

I shall get some pictures up later on today, few of the head work and where the car sits now.


Hopefully, having built an engine (hoping the bottom end is all good), I can now move onto chasing the rust and getting it all one colour!

[smokeandpoke]

So it's been a while, slow but sure progress.
It runs! It has MOT, all the body panels and arch trims, the front bumper even stays on!! :')



Brakes done all round.

Cooling system fitted, custom job as fan wiring was butchered by previous owner.

Stripped out properly, has one drivers seat and a fire extinguisher and that's it.
Removed all the black sound deadening from the rear quarters, which revealed a bit of rust.
Ground it back, painted and lacquered. Looks rather odd with just that patch but the rest of the car will be going white inside just to make it look cleaner and a bit more spacious.


Unsure on the state of the head gasket etc, as the coolant looks a bit cloudy.
Needs a timing belt doing to be able to give it the beans and diagnose any further problems.


Went to compression test it yesterday, when i found the plug on cylinder one had corroded itself in.
Other three spark plugs were covered in oil! Looks to be from above the spark plug, which is baffling as to how it got there. Could be leakage from rocker cover.

Soaked cylinder one plug in penetrating fluid, will give it another go at trying to remove the plug and test compression​ tonight. Does not look good!

Does not smoke, white black or blue.
Really just testing for piston ring condition... If they're shot I'm probably better if buying another engine as i don't have the tools or space to rebuild this one.

Sitting pretty....





Worst nightmare.....






Quite a bit of oil here... presumably from the rocker cover. It hasn't been run for particularly long or covered any real distance, so this is a bit confusing.






Cylinders 2-4 are like so





Cylinder 1....





Again with the coil pack removed, just to show the level of oil up here.








Coil pack doesn't look to clever on cylinder one.

[Synister]

Best of luck with it!

I wish I could find something needing as much work as this to keep me busy over summer.

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by Synister

Best of luck with it!

I wish I could find something needing as much work as this to keep me busy over summer.

As much work? There's not *too* much left to do.

The majority of things have been done, I've had to do a lot of wiring through the winter, virtually all the wiring for anything ancillary has been redone.. fog lights, fan, horn etc.

It scraped through the MOT okay!!

Will update later today with last night's results, but looks to be on the up and up.


Realistically needs a cam belt, a set of plugs and the various oil leaks addressing. Could do with whipping the engine out and degreasing too!!
Then she should be good to go... Ready for rust treatment and paint!!

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[smokeandpoke]

So came to test compression yesterday, could only test cylinders 2-4 as the tester won't bite the thread of the first cylinder.

Not sure what the piece of metal i got out is, or what's around the plug.
A mate reckons it's been helicoiled before but I've never seen that so cannot confirm.

Biggest variance is between cylinders 3&4 as shown. Bit of a large drop...


What even is this?



Remains of the plug.







Grimy ass cylinder

[AdamH]

when you do the dy fit use clay on and rotate a few times to ensure clearance will be fine

[axsaxoman]

If its still not running
did you use coil pack from c2 ?
wiring is different on c2 coil pack than saxo -so a c2 coil pack will not run on a saxo without some modification to wiring to it

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

If its still not running
did you use coil pack from c2 ?
wiring is different on c2 coil pack than saxo -so a c2 coil pack will not run on a saxo without some modification to wiring to it

Have not tried to fire it up as of yet - stuck with inlet gasket.
Citroen still make the o-rings, but not the paper/cork bit that the vts had when I took it apart.

I have found metal and PTFE ones online but these are substantially thicker and probably geared toward throttle body builds.

Is this what I need? The O rings AND an actual gasket to go round the studs etc?

Will end up being 50 quid just for a full set of inlet gaskets!!

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[axsaxoman]

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

Have not tried to fire it up as of yet - stuck with inlet gasket.
Citroen still make the o-rings, but not the paper/cork bit that the vts had when I took it apart.

I have found metal and PTFE ones online but these are substantially thicker and probably geared toward throttle body builds.

Is this what I need? The O rings AND an actual gasket to go round the studs etc?

Will end up being 50 quid just for a full set of inlet gaskets!!

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just use a small smear of god quality PU sealer /adhesive --same as they stick the sump on with
If I read you right you are using c2vts head with saxo inlet?
hope you have drilled the extra fixings as per the saxo head as c2 head does not have as many
also forget c2 inlet gasket --they stopped using them due to problems with manifold falling off on c2 vts (alloy manifold ) --due to fewer bolts +gasket compressing allowing bolts to loosen
and then changed to using PU sealer on c2 vts
plastic manifolded jp4 engines did not have the problem

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

just use a small smear of god quality PU sealer /adhesive --same as they stick the sump on with
If I read you right you are using c2vts head with saxo inlet?
hope you have drilled the extra fixings as per the saxo head as c2 head does not have as many
also forget c2 inlet gasket --they stopped using them due to problems with manifold falling off on c2 vts (alloy manifold ) --due to fewer bolts +gasket compressing allowing bolts to loosen
and then changed to using PU sealer on c2 vts
plastic manifolded jp4 engines did not have the problem

Yes that's correct, jp4 head and the original j4 inlet. I've drilled the holes out and it fits a treat.

So to cut a long story short, get a new set of o rings from Citroen and just stick some sealant round it and jobs a goodun!

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[smokeandpoke]

In the meantime, a few pics of the weekends progress.

Once I've sourced a inlet gasket, I can refit the manifold and fuel lines....
Then it'll be time to turn her over and hope she starts!!

The old water pump was pretty comfy in there and some force was needed...





Pistons aren't in too bad a shape, bores are clean, no lip and no scoring but that doesn't mean they're okay!


Almost there...


New cams timed up and looking purdy


Just the manifold, fuel lines and electricals to go!


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[gti180craig]

Almost there mate

[AdamH]

never seen a saxo rust as much as yours on the slam panel.. hows the rest of the engine bay and under the car?

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by AdamH

never seen a saxo rust as much as yours on the slam panel.. hows the rest of the engine bay and under the car?

Fucked. Absolutely rotten.

Inner wing is disgusting, small hole in the seam between the body and the strut tower, BIG hole under the ECU. Was a hole underneath I had patched up to get it through the MOT.
Rest of it is relatively clean, boot floor, rear arches, rails are all ok. It's only really the front that's gone!

The way I see it is it's only metal, can be welded and manipulated and I can make it my bitch!


Many saxos have the inner wings plated over, will make it look a bit cleaner as well.

Rust chasing is my next task.....
I'm going to take everything back as far as I can, I'll begin with the boot floor and rear of the car and work my way forward, sand, cut and weld, paint and underbody seal just for good measure.


I've got a new slam panel I've already treated and painted gloss white, looks nice but still haven't decided what colour to do the car. I do like the idea of a white engine bay though, however hard it'll be to keep clean. Kept clean though, it should show any leaks etc as soon as they form!


She'll be pretty one day....

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[AdamH]

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

Fucked. Absolutely rotten.

The way I see it is it's only metal, can be welded and manipulated and I can make it my bitch!

She'll be pretty one day....

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Love it!

Mine is a 1999 model VTS (Mk1 engine in a mk2 shell - 18 years old) and all the rust she has is the drivers subframe has 2 holes in the box section and the front bumper mounts which are made of cheese!..

I took the kit off the other week including bumpers and wings and that's all she has... I was quite shocked.. never been plated in the engine bay either

Shame the paintwork is fecked.. lacquer peel galore...

[smokeandpoke]

Originally Posted by AdamH

Love it!

Mine is a 1999 model VTS (Mk1 engine in a mk2 shell - 18 years old) and all the rust she has is the drivers subframe has 2 holes in the box section and the front bumper mounts which are made of cheese!..

I took the kit off the other week including bumpers and wings and that's all she has... I was quite shocked.. never been plated in the engine bay either

Shame the paintwork is fecked.. lacquer peel galore...

Mines legit an 02! I'd prefer doing the paintwork, I could do that myself but I can't weld.....

It did live in Brighton for the best part of its life, but it has been looked after in the 15 years it's existed... I've got a file best part of an inch thick of receipts and invoices, much of which relates to when it was a show car back in the max power days (hence the original spoiler) and many new exhausts?!


I've got tomorrow off work so a 3 day weekend, cleared it with the Mrs, and should have a car that starts and drives by Sunday if not hopefully before! Doing the oil and water tomorrow, I'm going to go ahead and simply use sealant and no gasket as advised above for the inlet, will order o rings in a second and pick them up tomorrow morning first thing, get it all together, fire her up and hope it works. Not sure the coil pack is up to scratch, if mot I'll need to look into getting another o

The tyres are shit, I've got a set of 15" steels to go on it, three still need painting as I was just using the other one to experiment with colour. Will probably go a really standard silver. They were a bit rusty but I've got one hell of a mains powered drill and got myself some awesome bits so I have total confidence for attacking the car body. Anything that isn't solid metal will be stripped back 🤣

Got two jinyu tyres to hand but they're a 50 profile, I'd like 45's but it's cheaper to buy two tyres than four so they'll do just while I'm running it in, sorting the rust and getting a proper suspension setup. There's a big clunk in the steering which I'm thinking might be the top mount?
It'll all be brand new sooner or later 😁

Originally Posted by AdamH

Love it!

Mine is a 1999 model VTS (Mk1 engine in a mk2 shell - 18 years old) and all the rust she has is the drivers subframe has 2 holes in the box section and the front bumper mounts which are made of cheese!..

I took the kit off the other week including bumpers and wings and that's all she has... I was quite shocked.. never been plated in the engine bay either

Shame the paintwork is fecked.. lacquer peel galore...

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[smokeandpoke]

So this is where I'm at today.

I'm not too sure what to do with these two bits, the pipe from what I assume was a horrible emissions related contraption that sat above the ex manifold and another which would appear to be a breather of sorts?

How do I go about removing these two, can't really see where the pipe goes but can it just be blanked the other end?

Can I do away with the breather, and plug it where it comes apart?

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[smokeandpoke]

She lives!

I did get a video but can't put it up on here, it started first time on the key.

The idle is erratic as it was on the old head.. I gave the manifold and throttle body assembly a good clean while it was all apart so shouldn't have thought ICV, unless it's just no good!
Think the throttle may need adjusting, even after getting warm it will jump between 1000/1500/2100 rpm idle, and even just trying to turn it around pulling away on next to no throttle and just the clutch, it wants to sit at about 4000rpm.

Needs a tweak... Any advice and pointers welcome!!!

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[axsaxoman]

check voltage at TPS
should be around 0.5-0.65v
you will know if you are on correct wires as that voltage will rise as you open throttle
if it is too high the ICV will not operate correctly