Turbo Engine Remapping/Ecu - Saxperience

Jack-Cooley · 29th July 2013, 17:55

I currently have a KMS ECU setup but have read into them and they seem to be trouble for ITB setups never mind boosted. i have spoken to colin at atspeed and he said the ecu will run the car no problem though.

Does anyone have any recommendations on who should do the mapping on the car, obviously ATspeed have been considered but if i had them do the mapping i would be very tempted to have an Omex loom built by colin along with purchasing an omex 600. it's just money at the minute thats holding me back, those that know me know that i've just moved down to apprenticeship wage which is a mere £106 a week.

It's just unfortunate that the wage drop and new job fell right at the end of the turbo build nearing completion rather than in another couple months.

any advice/experience stories with companies will be appreciated

Also prices for said companies would also be nice

jeffchiz · 29th July 2013, 18:05

thought about the predator? £500 new, £400ish second hand and plugs straight in, then i paid £270 at northampton motorsport for 3 hrs of mapping

Tom5190 · 29th July 2013, 18:10

I thought ricky p was building it?

jsdvtr · 30th July 2013, 10:40

My turbo saxo i will be looking at atspeed (quite far though), NMS or streetracers. Im using a omex 600 also.

Ross^p · 30th July 2013, 12:18

It's called Krap Management System for a reason...

Omex is popular - not least of which is because of the markup the dealers make. Predator is a good choice as uses existing loom. AEM is slightly less than Omex 600 money and has more features than a 600. If I were starting again, I'd go AEM.

Jack-Cooley · 30th July 2013, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

thought about the predator? £500 new, £400ish second hand and plugs straight in, then i paid £270 at northampton motorsport for 3 hrs of mapping

What can be done with a predator can be done with a standard ecu down at chipwizards no? there was a lot of hype on here when the predator came out i hear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

I thought ricky p was building it?

And the ecu/mapping info is where?

he was going to be building it without a labour cost as a demo car and i purchase all the parts but it seems to have ended up at my house and i couldnt be bothered with arguing the case so im building it myself now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

My turbo saxo i will be looking at atspeed (quite far though), NMS or streetracers. Im using a omex 600 also.

i've spoken with atspeed following a conversation with matt russel at fcs. the problem with atspeed is if i went there i'd probably go for the Omex since im driving all of 5 hours anyway its going to end up costing a bomb either way.

so the omex is 545.
the loom built by atspeed is £280 colin said
Then installing the loom is £5-600(i'd have to install it myself i cant understand why putting an engine bay loom in is going to take him 10 hours)
and then mapping costs at 90/hour (typical 5-6 hours)

Plus VAT on top of all that, totals around £2,200.. not worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

It's called Krap Management System for a reason...

Omex is popular - not least of which is because of the markup the dealers make. Predator is a good choice as uses existing loom. AEM is slightly less than Omex 600 money and has more features than a 600. If I were starting again, I'd go AEM.

Omex is popular yes, and how is predator any better than say KMS or the Stock ECU? also what is AEM never heard of that do enlighten me?

Tom5190 · 30th July 2013, 18:32

I was going to say use the management that the person whos mapping it recommends. Only ecus ive fit and used are motec and emerald. Cant grumble at the price vs function of the emeralds.

Ross^p · 30th July 2013, 18:57

Predator plugs into your existing loom. No wiring required plus comes supplied with a base map to have you up and running. Is supported by every mapper in the country basically as its based on megasquirt.

Mapping the stock ecu (which was never designed for boost) with chipwizards means a return trip to that one place only every time anything changes on the car - turbo change? Back to them only. Standard remapped ecu also has next to no resale value if it comes to that.

Google AEM ecu. Excellent software, boost by gear and by revs, traction control as standard, etc etc. some very high level features included that the Omex 600 doesn't have.

I run the Omex myself - I don't mind it. But as I said, if I started again it wouldn't be my ecu of choice. It's what I was sold.

jeffchiz · 30th July 2013, 19:11

£2200 for an ecu up and running shit me!

cost me £750 all in for ecu, fitting (by me all of 30 secs..) and mapping cant complain at all or i couldve saved £270 if i got andy to map it on the road (inc int he price of the ecu), but i had issues and wanted it done on a rolling road

however contrary to what ross said a lot of people are put off by the predator when it comes to mapping, mine was done at nms but iirc they had to be persuaded to touch it but on the other hand it took him less than 3 hours to map my throttle bodied vts, using a free tunerstudio download, very user friendly for any mapper to use

kris2508 · 30th July 2013, 20:37

A good ecu and map is worth every penny imo.

Jack-Cooley · 30th July 2013, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

I was going to say use the management that the person whos mapping it recommends. Only ecus ive fit and used are motec and emerald. Cant grumble at the price vs function of the emeralds.

forgive me for being snappy i thought it was going to be one of those troll like comments

Yeah i would 100% use the ecu that the mapper is comfortable with but having wayne as my first choice mapper because of him being local and cheap compared to some others and he always says that he is happy mapping anything

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Predator plugs into your existing loom. No wiring required plus comes supplied with a base map to have you up and running. Is supported by every mapper in the country basically as its based on megasquirt.

Mapping the stock ecu (which was never designed for boost) with chipwizards means a return trip to that one place only every time anything changes on the car - turbo change? Back to them only. Standard remapped ecu also has next to no resale value if it comes to that.

Google AEM ecu. Excellent software, boost by gear and by revs, traction control as standard, etc etc. some very high level features included that the Omex 600 doesn't have.

I run the Omex myself - I don't mind it. But as I said, if I started again it wouldn't be my ecu of choice. It's what I was sold.

True but is the predator really up to the job?

I agree with the stock ecu remap so thats why i kinda changed my mind although he has sorted that, "not ready for boost" problem

Googles AEM ecu and its throwing up things like fuel and ignition controller, then i get things like ones that plug into the stock loom is that what you mean? if not do you have a link for me and a price maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

£2200 for an ecu up and running shit me!

cost me £750 all in for ecu, fitting (by me all of 30 secs..) and mapping cant complain at all or i couldve saved £270 if i got andy to map it on the road (inc int he price of the ecu), but i had issues and wanted it done on a rolling road

however contrary to what ross said a lot of people are put off by the predator when it comes to mapping, mine was done at nms but iirc they had to be persuaded to touch it but on the other hand it took him less than 3 hours to map my throttle bodied vts, using a free tunerstudio download, very user friendly for any mapper to use

Exactly i nearly had a heart attack this morning when he replied.

i could get the predator mapped no problem down at chipwizards but again the issue is will it be ready/complex enough to work with boost and all the variables?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kris2508

A good ecu and map is worth every penny imo.

True, but when the ecu loom and remap costs more than my engine and respray did something isnt quite right

jeffchiz · 30th July 2013, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kris2508

A good ecu and map is worth every penny imo.

Yea but there is a difference from £750 to over £2k lol omex will have more functionality than a predator but IIRC the pred will be more than capable to do what he needs it to do,

best bet is to pm Andy and he'll tell you the ins and outs of it

Jack-Cooley · 30th July 2013, 22:43

I dont like bugging people just for info i feel a little cheeky when i havnt purchased anything off them.

im just curious as to what the difference between the Predator and this KMS i have will be thats all.

i dont want to sell the kms, buy a predator for it to produce the same outcome

sje00 · 31st July 2013, 05:29

decide on who you want to map it. Then go with the ECU they prefer.

or go to somewhere that prefers to use KrapMS. (I hear the Idle with KMS leaves a little to be desired) Certainly the few cars i heard with KMS have poor. idle, but then again they were mapped at the same place.

Sometimes you just have to pay the money Jack. When did you practically become an engineer?

sexy_gt · 31st July 2013, 11:57

You won't be able to get Andy till Mon/Tues he's away. Without mocking the guy hes a bit of a tech geek and rearly knows his stuff.

I used my pred for bodies few years now and for boost since Oct. The fact GMC are happy to use predator ecu is enough for me.

Predator runs boost from word go and needs no other mods. It also has idle control. As IMO any ecu should have.

Jack-Cooley · 31st July 2013, 15:54

Sonny, true but if wayne is mapping it he has no preference so I never know what ecu to go with, but right now I'm being swayed towards the predator

Plus I've been technically an 'engineer' since like 2011 but that dosnt mean I'm any good. I have my qualifications though

&

If the predator is running yours on boost then I can't see mine being an issue, what kind of sensors are you running for the map ect.. I currently have a cossie one, I'll probably run the gizmo for boost controll & obviously I have a wideband lambda

K567 · 31st July 2013, 16:16

Do it all your self mate it's easier than getting robbed blind for a job that isn't too hard to do
Seriously 5-600 for a loom install
Go DTA
Sandy can make you a full loom for about 350 inc a link to your stock internal loom for dash
It takes an hour at most to fit once you have the Ecu situated
All he needs to know is how long the lead needs to be and have an engine loom sent to him
Other option is any Ecu and Beanisport contact Beanimoo on here

Mapping wise, I've got a guy who can map anything
Travels for cost of fuel and is £20 an hour
My old map on the Saxo was done in 2 hours from a decent base map on the motorway and some hills
Cost me £120 all done
Or if you have a local dyno you can rent by the hour get it done on there also

K567 · 31st July 2013, 16:23

As for mappers in general
Any mapper who say I will only use X Ecu is in my mind a shit mapper
Stay away

When you look at all the different software out there for each Ecu they are all the same and do the same thing but use different terms

I started with electromotive then did autronic, then Motec and haltec.
Fact is they all do the same thing it's down to how they do it in what area and how the math works

I've used tuner studio for MS my last one and found it to be easy as pie to do
Now I'm on DTA and after a bit of reading I'm not afraid to do it on my car
I have a good setup that lets me monitor very well what's happening

Time does cost money but seriously if your mapper can't use any Ecu he ain't worth the money they ask.

sexy_gt · 31st July 2013, 17:54

Jack the pred ecu uses all cars standard sensors with a internal boost solonoid inside the ecu. I'm supercharged so my boost is limited by engine rpm. So I don't need require a boost controller.

Jack-Cooley · 31st July 2013, 18:15

Thanks for the info K, all taken in and considered. pm me some more details about your mapping guy also

and will the fact that you dont need a boost controller and i will cause any problems for me?