Turbo or Throttle Bodies, Pro's and Con's? Opinions..

[sliderz]

how much money you got that what it boils down to
and the only way of getting serious power is charger or turbo and low comp pistons rods and a new standalone ecu and injectors

[blackie_2k5]

throttle bodies are nice but turbo's are better, problem your gonna have with a thread like this there are too many dif opinions/preferances out there, and the n/a boosted debate is a long and never ending dispute, it all boils down to what YOU want from your engine, as already pointed out with similar spends you can get ALOT more power and torque from a turbo when compared to a bodie's set up

danny is right on the money with his post, BUT lag can be fun too, its what makes a turbo more appealing to some then a s/charger, one big burst of power on spool up

reliability issues are near enough the same as big power throttle body builds are just as likely to break, but with a charged set up more particularly turbo.. your more then likelyto suffer more drive train related problems due to the extra torqe ad te way its delivered

[CarlosVT]

Originally Posted by db_sax

Depends which cams..ph3 155/60ish...?

Sweet, ph3's best ones to go for mate?

Originally Posted by sliderz

how much money you got that what it boils down to
and the only way of getting serious power is charger or turbo and low comp pistons rods and a new standalone ecu and injectors

I want good power for a reliable daily driver

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

throttle bodies are nice but turbo's are better, problem your gonna have with a thread like this there are too many dif opinions/preferances out there, and the n/a boosted debate is a long and never ending dispute, it all boils down to what YOU want from your engine, as already pointed out with similar spends you can get ALOT more power and torque from a turbo when compared to a bodie's set up

danny is right on the money with his post, BUT lag can be fun too, its what makes a turbo more appealing to some then a s/charger, one big burst of power on spool up

reliability issues are near enough the same as big power throttle body builds are just as likely to break, but with a charged set up more particularly turbo.. your more then likelyto suffer more drive train related problems due to the extra torqe ad te way its delivered

Blackie.. Awesome info, thank you! Would you say that a good throttle body set up would be a bit more reliable for a daily driver? I'd love to have a turbo to be honest but I can just see it being a bit more unreliable and a lot more work being involved than bodies?

[AXracing]

Originally Posted by dannygti

people go on about lag but really its nothing to complain about, especially against a highly strung N/A engine. take a 210bhp super 1600 engine for example, it wont make hardly any power till after 4-5 or even 6k.. then you get most of your power until say 9k..
with a 210bhp turbo engine you could spec a turbo to spool up by 2k and have most of the power (i.e 170bhp+) right from 3k all the way to 7k.. and have 2x the torque.

you are missin what turbo lag is. even when a turbo is spinning and you have boost it take a long time to speed up and slow down. this is the lag. the more boost the more lag you get.

[stevo67]

Drop the 16v lump in 1st & see how you like the extra power then later make a decision on throttle bodies/turbo.

Steve.

[CarlosVT]

Originally Posted by stevo67

Drop the 16v lump in 1st & see how you like the extra power then later make a decision on throttle bodies/turbo.

Steve.

The white saxo will be my 4th saxo mate. I had a black VTS so I know what 16v is like.

Thanks for the input though

[Dave_P]

I'd say go for bodies, a sandy inlet & GSX R1000 TB's and KMS ECU & adapter for plug & play from QEP would be the most cost effective option, add 708 cat cams & raceland/saxport for 165-170bhp... a quaife atb diff would top things off nicely.

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by CarlosVT

Sweet, ph3's best ones to go for mate?



I want good power for a reliable daily driver



Blackie.. Awesome info, thank you! Would you say that a good throttle body set up would be a bit more reliable for a daily driver? I'd love to have a turbo to be honest but I can just see it being a bit more unreliable and a lot more work being involved than bodies?

its totally dependant on your spends and expected power mate, 160bhp on a tb set up should be fairly reliable, but then 180bhp on a turbo.... providing both have good mapping and the turbo has good intercooling should be near enough equal in terms of relaiblitly give or take, once you start getting beyond beyond those powers(some will say before/after) you start to need upgrades in terms of forged internals etc, you could get to 230bhp turbo quite easily before starting to worry about drivetrain issues in most cases and still be fairly reliable, but above 160bhp in a throttle body set up your going to be revving very high/wild cams, and this is a worry too..... high tolerances etc

there will be many cases where x and y has been done to achieve blah blah and run for x or y time with no issues on standards internals, but most who do want a good reliable set up regardless of what they choose will upgrade the relevant parts beforehand for an expected power or budget, you need to decide that first......

[Dave_P]

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

you could get to 230bhp turbo quite easily before starting to worry about drivetrain issues

Thats crap!

The torque and delivery of it with 230bhp will not be gearbox friendly, particularly on a used gearbox with god knows how many miles on it and an unsympathetic driver.

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

in most cases and still be fairly reliable, but above 160bhp in a throttle body set up your going to be revving very high/wild cams, and this is a worry too.

Thats crap too!

708 cat cams will peak at 7400-7500rpm, thats not "revving very high" and they're not "wild cams".

Even the boy from gmc is happy with hydraulic lifters reving to 7800rpm.

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Thats crap!

The torque and delivery of it with 230bhp will not be gearbox friendly, particularly on a used gearbox with god knows how many miles on it and an unsympathetic driver.



Thats crap too!

708 cat cams will peak at 7400-7500rpm, thats not "revving very high" and they're not "wild cams".

Even the boy from gmc is happy with hydraulic lifters reving to 7800rpm.

and the debate starts, i said you can get up to 230bhp before you start worrying about drievtrain issues, as plenty ppl have, i never said anything would be gearbox friendly did i

i also said once above 160bhp your going to be revving high, i never said anything about running 708s at a slightly uprated rev limit, (although it may be worth noting by above 160bhp i meant above/around the 170 mark which takes you out of the ph3/708 range although its still capable of making this on ethose cams)

i never mentioned anything being set in stone either!, i also stated ppl will have x or y results on x or x set ups, im merely stating what most ppl will regard as being reliable/unreliable to someone whos asked!!!

which is why i stated uprated internals, and the fact both are equally unreliable after certain power, most ppl will spend more to compensate for this and be prepared not to ruin decent engines by skimping out

and finally who said anything about an "unsympathetic driver" a standard 1.1 wont last long with an unsympathetic driver

but thanks for pointing out the obvious

[Dave_P]

Would you like a spade?

[blackie_2k5]

quality reply mate

[Dave_P]

[blackie_2k5]

they say a pic sais a thousand words....... yet your statement and pics shows nothing..... pull it apart mate, you pulled my statement apart, i answerd, pull what ive said again apart?

[Krys_23]

Draper spade too, no cheap shit being offered from Dave_P, lol.

[Tufty]

Class posts. Lets take money out of it here, why? because to get into this sorta game you have to have some sort of cash.

Daily drive? fun around town? i would go for a nice low boost set up. why?
Because you can play with "senseable power" and just have fun. Anything bigger then your going to have problems.
- Lag
- more running costs

N/A.... you can have an n/a car as a daily drive yh, but then its depends how hardcore you want to go and how much bhp your after.
I can imagine ph3 and bodies is an awesome drive but then you could have a low boost set up and still have fun. However, track wise and sprints in my opinion a high powered N/A is more suitable, boosted FWD hatch backs are very hard to drive with big power on a track, and then you have the problem with what size turbo?

Anyways before i make mountains out of mole hills, shop around, learn, then make your choice.

[Dave_P]

Originally Posted by Krys_23

Draper spade too, no cheap shit being offered from Dave_P, lol.

Its a stainless steel spade... good for digging holes dont you know.

[blackie_2k5]

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Its a stainless steel spade... good for digging holes dont you know.

justify digging holes

[Mieran]

Turbo.

[chinkostu]

it all depends, i loved my mates punto gt as when it came on boost it was a kick in the teeth! personally though i'm torn between the two, both need similar places to start for a good base (better internals, standalone ecu) but the main good point about the turbo is you can get it mapped then if you want try and up the boost pressure until you have it sitting nicely. once you've played with the bodies, cammed and put a decent exhaust on, theres not much left to do really!