where's my clutch - Saxperience

ns9900 · 17th March 2013, 15:14

been a bit lazy this week with my left foot, busy shedules n all those kind of excuses, youve heard them all before!

now, i was driving down a straight and upshifted into 3 BUT FORGOT TH CLUTCH now, this is th 4th time i've ever done this, but never grinded. i understand how it all works but is it better for th car, providing that you dont grind gears, to shift without a clutch?

m4tt274 · 17th March 2013, 15:15

rev matching.

Tommo87 · 17th March 2013, 15:17

Does missing an e off the save that much time?

ns9900 · 17th March 2013, 15:19

for down shifting me thinks? never gone down a gear, only up. will it kill my gearbox?

L33h · 17th March 2013, 15:24

match the revs n speed to the gear.

why would you want to do it anyway

Prickle^p · 17th March 2013, 15:27

Quote:

where's my clutch

Trick question?

ns9900 · 17th March 2013, 15:28

i dont, just out of curiosity

i was told by my mate who does engineering that cars used to be made to shift without clutches. considering that they cost a lot to fix, thought it may be a solution but hay, just a thought! cheers for th replies

jasonmayall · 17th March 2013, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ns9900

i dont, just out of curiosity

i was told by my mate who does engineering that cars used to be made to shift without clutches. considering that they cost a lot to fix, thought it may be a solution but hay, just a thought! cheers for th replies

not using your clutch is the worst solution to clutch problems i've ever heard lol.
If you're having problems, just replace it - Its not like they're expensive if you DIY

vtrsarah · 17th March 2013, 15:42

that will be the pedal nearest you gear stick

Carl-h · 17th March 2013, 15:50

Lol, I can go up an down the box without clutch but generally learnt in a car that was fucked and going a few weeks later. I learnt so I won't be stranded if I ever have a clutch fail or anything.

It's not better for the clutch or the gearbox and its a fuck load slower too. I'd imagine it'd fuck your synchros pretty soon too so you'd better learn how to double de clutch if you want to keep the car.

ns9900 · 17th March 2013, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-h

Lol, I can go up an down the box without clutch but generally learnt in a car that was fucked and going a few weeks later. I learnt so I won't be stranded if I ever have a clutch fail or anything.

It's not better for the clutch or the gearbox and its a fuck load slower too. I'd imagine it'd fuck your synchros pretty soon too so you'd better learn how to double de clutch if you want to keep the car.

thanks for the insight, i dont plan on doing it, as said, just out of curiosity

as for the DIY solution, i'll have to consider learning as i plan to go abingdon come summer. much to do before then and im sure a clutch will come into it!

Gandi699 · 17th March 2013, 17:09

In the olden days you had to rev match to get into gear as you had no synchros in your "crash" box. Something my old man bangs on about all the time when he passed in some ancient lorry in 1951 or something

stigsdump · 17th March 2013, 19:00

learning how to drive without a clutch does come in handy when the clutch goes.

I had a Mk1 fiesta years back and the clutch throw arm snapped in the bell housing leaving the car stranded in middle of town.

I ended up driving it home using just the revs and crashing the box. Hardest part was getting it going in 1st from a set of traffic lights when turning right. BUT as soon as I'd got going and the hang of matching the revs, the gears soon came freely without any grinding...even when slowing down. As long as the revs are matched and gears dont grind it doesn't do any damage to the gearbox or syncro

I also regualrly go up the box on motorbike without the clutch. Its far safer than trying to grab the clutch when you're going for it big time. 0-100 in sub 5 secs takes a bit of holding onto

headless · 17th March 2013, 19:18

May be a stupid question. But what exactly are you "matching" the revs too? Building them up high enough so that the gear goes in or what?

Kebabman · 17th March 2013, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by headless

May be a stupid question. But what exactly are you "matching" the revs too? Building them up high enough so that the gear goes in or what?

You match the revs to the point they would be when you change into the next gear. When up shifting you can just let the revs drop off a bit to the correct revs for the next gear. When down shifting you need to blip the accelerator to get the revs up to the point they would be in the lower gear you are going in to. As long as the revs are at the correct point when you try and shift into gear without using the clutch it should just slot nicely into gear.

When I'm rallying I always heel and toe to get the revs to the correct point when braking and down shifting so as to not unbalance the car and provoke a lock up when on the limit of the brakes. That said I still use the clutch as well anyway.

Carl-h · 17th March 2013, 19:56

Anyone can go up the box without the clutch. Try from 3rd to 4th, as you shit off the throttle it will release the tension on the box for a split second, push the lever down into neutral then slowly move into 4th with fingertip pressure. It won't go until the revs have dropped enough to allow it, when the revs are right it will slot in easily. Going down the gears involves you matching the revs with the throttle, which obviously takes much more practice.

Clutch less shifting on a bike (or any sequential 'box) is a piece of piss, quicker and generally causes next to no wear. Just simply apply a small amount of pressure on the lever, roll off then back on the throttle. Whilst rolling off it relieves the tension and allows it to shift up. On a bike it's easily manageable to shift in just a split second. Going down is possible but obviously a bit more difficult to relieve the tension as it involves blipping the throttle but only very very slightly. Can also introduce a bit of sliding from the rear as the revs try to rise.

I personally clutch less upshift and use the clutch down on a bike. Although on an mx bike I never use the clutch to shift.

Double declutching in a car without synchros involves changing into neutral, releasing clutch then depressing again and selecting desired gear. You release in neutral to match the box to the road speed to allow the next gear.

Then there's heel and toe (revmatching, or blipping on a bike. Easy on a bike) which is braking with your toe and blipping the throttle with your heel/side of your foot. You blip to match the revs to the next gear, means you can lift straight up off the clutch to give more engine braking but not the bit where just releasing the clutch needs to bring engine revs up creating more than desired engine braking, which unsettles the car. Rev matching also reduced wear on the clutch.

If you can't heel and toe in a saxo there's something wrong with you. Best car I've drive for it and I have size 11 feet lol. There's so many variations of gearbox and shifting technique just use what works best for you.

Carl-h · 17th March 2013, 20:00

Fucking hell I've wrote a right essay there. If your unsure of any different type of shifting there's videos of each on YouTube which will make it easier to understand.

m4tt274 · 17th March 2013, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonmayall

not using your clutch is the worst solution to clutch problems i've ever heard lol.
If you're having problems, just replace it - Its not like they're expensive if you DIY

its worth knowing about though.
In an old 1.8TD sierra P100 i once released the clutch and the friction plate failed. It was a while back, but just driving it normally. I managed to get it coasting in neutral at about 40mph, revved the engine up to 4000rpm and applied pressure to the gear leaver pushing it into 3rd. When the revs got to about 2500rpm or so, with a clonk it engaged. I then drove it to the nearest garaged and stalled it outside. Thankfully i knew they would be able to do the job and there were no junctions or traffic lights on the route.

chimnehp0ts · 17th March 2013, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrsarah

that will be the pedal nearest you gear stick

so what if his car is left hand drive?

Kebabman · 17th March 2013, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4tt274

its worth knowing about though.
In an old 1.8TD sierra P100 i once released the clutch and the friction plate failed. It was a while back, but just driving it normally. I managed to get it coasting in neutral at about 40mph, revved the engine up to 4000rpm and applied pressure to the gear leaver pushing it into 3rd. When the revs got to about 2500rpm or so, with a clonk it engaged. I then drove it to the nearest garaged and stalled it outside. Thankfully i knew they would be able to do the job and there were no junctions or traffic lights on the route.

On an old escort of mine the auto adjuster snapped. I had to drive it sodding miles as well through lights etc. I just drove up to the lights, switched the engine off, stuck it in first and set off on the starter motor and changed without the clutch from there. Not pretty in the slightest, but it got me and the car home...