1.1 > VTS - Saxperience

Dave_J · 11th May 2004, 21:44

Right, heres the score

Got a MK2 1.1, plan on putting in a MK2 VTS engine.

Does anybody know exactly what is needed and what needs doing. I've heard so much stuff about unlocking ECU's, 3 or 2 pin ECU's, re-wiring entire car, engine mountings different, bla bla bloody bla

I honestly though i would need all the bits and pieces which i thought i would, i.e engine, gearbox, ecu, wiring loom, struts and driveshafts.
And i thought loosen a few nuts and bolts pull it out, stick it in and done VTS engine in my beast

Anybody else have any ideas or is it as simple as that???

supersav · 11th May 2004, 23:58

sorry mate, but if life was that easy we'd all be driving 200mph cars.

the path to just such a conversion is fraught with problems.

In my estimation you will need:

chassis number of the car the engine came from(imperetive)
Engine (complete with manifolds, sensors, the lot)
gearbox(if you want)
drive shafts
front struts(complete with brakes, recomended)
engine wiring loom
ecu(un-locked)
o/s engine mount bracket(the bit that's welded to the inner wing)
o/s engine mount
wiring diagrams for both cars
a mate who works @ citroen (you'll need to ask loads of stupid questions)
a masters degree in auto electrics
time, patiance, worlds supply of tools, nuts and bolts

The most dificult bit for me was the wiring, I gave up and threw the whole engine loom in the bin and made my own from scratch using a haltech e6k ecu.

best of luck.

Dave_J · 12th May 2004, 13:54

So have you converted a 1.1 to a VTS??

I heard that the engine mounts were different and was going to get them anyway but wasnt sure if i would use them cause i honestly thought they would just be them same.
So are they different??

When you say an un-locked ECU? what is that?

Scott^p · 12th May 2004, 19:46

the ecu doesnt need to be unlocked. But if it is not unlocked then you will need the key from the donor engine so that you can get the transponder chip from it, this is then stuck onto th transponder ring on the ignition barrel and this deactivates the immobiliser.

Dave_J · 12th May 2004, 20:43

so if i dont have it unlocked, then i need the key. Will i also need the donor car ignition barel or will mine work with the other cars key??

This is starting to sound like more chew than its worth. I managed to find a "FULL" conversion, but i have a feeling their version of full and my version of FULL may be different.
They say that it comes complete with everything needed, but for some reason i know i would find something was missing.
Me and my mate were going to fit it and I think that the ordianry thing like getting my engine out, changing struts, driveshafts will be easy. But if i have to start pissing about with engine mountings and unlocking ECU's is going to get on my bloody nerves.

Any idea how much it costs to unlock, or how it can be done
Also do i actually have to fit another engine mount anywhere, or can i just cahange the ones i have already in. There not 1 less in the 1.1's is there??

I'm bloody sick just writing about it

Scott^p · 12th May 2004, 21:24

as far as i know the engine mounts are different, exaclty how im not sure.

You wont need the donor car ignition barrel, just the key, within the key plastic is a little chip thats the transponder.

Getting ECU unlocked is an expensive job, though there are certain ecus than can be unlocked by doing a sequence of things, rob_quads on ssc had detials and from wht i remember a guide to doing it

Northern_Will · 12th May 2004, 22:25

Surely its easier AND cheaper to sell the 1.1 n buy a VTs?

supersav · 13th May 2004, 00:22

No, mine was a 1.0i ax to vtr conversion but it's more or less the same, just using different parts, if you catch my drift?

If you have an un-locked ecu to start with, because it's not coded to the car, i'm told by citroen, it'll stay un-locked, you won't have the use of the imobiliser but it'll work.

This is why you'll need a chum at citroen, if your car and the donor car run the same imobiliser then I suppose you could get an un-locked ecu and have your citroen dealer code it to the new car?

My mole at citroen also tells me that if you leave the imobiliser on the donor car, turn on the ignition, wait for the light to come on/go out, telling you the ecu has recognised the key, then un-plug the ecu(ignition still on), and bobs your uncle......one un-locked ecu.

Souds a bit risky to me, but there you go, that's what the man says??

Scott^p · 13th May 2004, 05:14

yeah thats the one that rob quads was talkign about it does work but it may not work on all makes of ecu

Dave_J · 13th May 2004, 14:14

I have spent thousands on the bodywork, so aint changing the whole car now.
So can another saxo key actually be used on another saxo car??

Can somebody see if they can find out if the engine mounts are different??
I know i would prob have to upgrade mine to VTS standard but i dont really want to start welding on new engine mounts if they are in different places or if there is more of them on a VTS.
I thought they would be in exactly the same place and would have the same number of mounts.

Deano1983 · 13th May 2004, 14:27

Fuck that, get a VTS, much easier maybe cheaper aswel, dont matter wot u doin it wont be the same as a VTS!!

Deano

Dave_J · 13th May 2004, 14:43

With the price I will pay for a VTS, I will just stick to changing the engine, you can get an engine pretty reasonably priced and me and my mate will fit it.
Just really need to know about these bloody mounts and what the difference's are!

I'll just mak sure the ECU gets unlocked b4 i buy it.

Scott^p · 13th May 2004, 18:44

no you wont be able to use the other key, unless you change the whole ignition barrel etc...

why not have a look at where your engine mounts are on your car?

the VTS has an engine mounts underneath the ECU, under the battery and on under the car for the gearbox

Dave_J · 13th May 2004, 19:04

So basically, I can either get one unlocked which may cost quite abit. Or i can get ECU, key and ignition barrel form the donor car and fit these and use them??

Thanks for the VTS engine mount advice, i'll have a look tonight to check I have them 3 in the same place. If they are in the same place and i have all 3 of them, I only have to upgrade mine to the same 1's a VTS has in yeah??

Scott^p · 13th May 2004, 19:33

thats the idea yes.

You dont actually need the ignition barrel that would be an unnecessary evil.

Get the ECU and the key from the donor car.

THe immobiliser system works like this:

The ECU is lloking for a code from the transponder chip, this chip is contained within the plastic of the key.

When you put the key in the ignition barrel there is a ring around the start of the barrel that senses this chip, if its the correct chip it will tell the ECU which in turn will turn off the immobiliser.

SO when you fit your new engine and its ECU then the ecu will still be looking for the origional chip, thats why you need the origional key. What you then do is either take the key apart and get the chip and then tape/stick it as near to the ignition barrel as possible or you just stick the whole key there, obvioisly you stick the key and chip behind the the shroud that covers the barrell

Dave_J · 13th May 2004, 20:14

So, if it is NOT unlocked, I have to either pull the donor key apart to get the chip that matches to new ECU, or actually stick the full key behind the sterring wheel shrouding thing.

But, if the ECU is unlocked, then Rob's you fathers bro, dont have to piss about with any key shite and it all works like happy days?

So does any of this mean that my imobiliser will be permanently switched OFF!

Sick of the engine converting already

Scott^p · 13th May 2004, 21:44

im pretty sure it does mean that the actory fitted immobiliser will be permantely off, though any after market alarm will work the same