Cammed 8v or Cammed 16v?

[jayline]

Originally Posted by mattrallye

If he's running a S1 inlet then he'll need the earlier head for stud pattern depending on if he's running black or silver top. So maybe it has a modified head that he's unaware of!?

this is a good possiblility? joe333 any chance of this?

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by jayline

this is true but in this situation, its claimed he has 118bhp from a 4-1 mani and omp exhaust and s1 inlet, im guessing his vtr is a 98 bhp one so that would be a gain of around 20 bhp from them!

i didnt know that you could make a good gain from them as i thought it would make about 10 maybe 15 bhp at a push! i could believe the gains if it was cammed and may of said it was slightly underpowered!

Originally Posted by mattrallye

If he's running a S1 inlet then he'll need the earlier head for stud pattern depending on if he's running black or silver top. So maybe it has a modified head that he's unaware of!?

he hasnt got a vtr he has a s2 rallye lol

[jayline]

my bad then joe

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by jayline

my bad then joe

they are still only 100bhp so its still 18bhp from breathing mods, still basically a vtr engine power wise

[jayline]

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

they are still only 100bhp so its still 18bhp from breathing mods, still basically a vtr engine power wise

i never knew the states of the rallye range? what do the s1 1.3's push out then?

[Quick]

S1 kick out 100bhp from a peaky little 1.3!

[jayline]

Originally Posted by Quick

S1 kick out 100bhp from a peaky little 1.3!

sounds good, what are the general gains from a ported and polished head on one of these?

[sje00]

Ummmm.

[Quick]

1.3 Rallye heads are already good! Hard to make more power from it without loosing drivablilty!

[Gandi699]

Standard rallye had a better map with higher rev limit. I cant a mildly modded vtr making those kind of figures. Could really do with getting mine on a rolling road and see what it makes

[sje00]

The Rallye had a different cam and a better head.

[Gandi699]

Originally Posted by sje00

The Rallye had a different cam and a better head.

Yeah the J cam and the altered combustion chamber. That aside though it would rev to 7250 rpm as oppososed to the VTR 1000rpm lower

[Tom5190]

Originally Posted by joe333

The money side is irrelevant really as mines 118.9hp at the moment so same as a standard 16v,Yes! so spending £1000 on mine could get it to say 150hp and spending £1000 on 16v could get 150hp!

£1000 wont see you 150hp from a 16v in most case's (if you factor in someone else fitting & using new parts) let alone an 8v.

I dont really know too much about 8v's because ill be honest ive never actually seen or worked on a modified one behond breathing mods. But it is a science that the 16v is better, not an opinion, the head is better and flows better from standard too. Not to say an 8v cant make good power (see tweeqd) it just tends to be that what ever power you get from the 8v if you had spent that money on a 16v it would be more.

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

so hes got 134 with a standard vts and so that in your head means the rolling road is reliable? lol i think in most people minds it points out that it is over reading maybe?

kinda shot your self in the foot with that comment lol

The rolling road he is talking about is the one mine made 141hp on. Granted my G/box was knakerd so my losses will of been higher than the inputed ones, (it was a dyno dynamics) but i doubt enough for me to be 10hp down so even with a perfect running engine/transmission i would of only really saw 145ish on that road i imagine.

There was a few strange figures from that day though like a standard 1.1 making 75hp.

I would look at it from a different angle than noise and hp, whats the best 1/4 mile time you have seen from the 8v joe and at what strip?

[joe333]

Originally Posted by Tom5190

I would look at it from a different angle than noise and hp, whats the best 1/4 mile time you have seen from the 8v joe and at what strip?

Santa pod at usc i went down with over a half tank and got a 16.1

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

as Tom said will cost more than a grand I've paid about £1700-2000 to get my 16v to 155bhp and that's with getting my bodies at a stupidly low price got a good £30 off my cams, me and Tom fitted everything and did most the work

Seriously mate do whatever makes you happy a fast 8v is always interesting just don't under estimate the costs which ever route you take

That parry 121 got 159.9 bhp with cat cam 708s, lighten and balance fly wheel. mapped ECU.

So yours cammed with boddies only getting 155bhp... something wrong there?

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by joe333

Santa pod at usc i went down with over a half tank and got a 16.1



That parry 121 got 159.9 bhp with cat cam 708s, lighten and balance fly wheel. mapped ECU.

So yours cammed with boddies only getting 155bhp... something wrong there?

fly wheel wont make any difference to power and no there is nothign wrong with mine thanks, that is what those mods are expected to get on northampton motorsport's road

I really hope you are not that nieve and go by rolling road figures to compare cars, 160 bhp with 708's and oem ecu is a way to hgih of a figure surely you should know that??? but considering you believe youve got 118bhp with breathing mods then i guess you do

Also if you know anything about throttle bodies you would know on fast road cams such as 708/743/ph3s they wont produce that much more PEAK power than jsut a cammed car, they are needed to supply air for wilder cams on my spec they mainly make a nice noise, look good in the bay and produce higher torque figures and a smoother power curve, its not all about max bhp

if you want to mod the 8v then jsut mod the 8v doesnt bother me either way just trying to advise you and not get you to piss all your money away, peace out.

[sje00]

Originally Posted by Gandi699

Yeah the J cam and the altered combustion chamber. That aside though it would rev to 7250 rpm as oppososed to the VTR 1000rpm lower

Yes... I know.

The Vtr had an inferior cam, an inferior rev limit and some came with the stupid long ratios no?

[sje00]

How much is it for an 8v cam?
How much is it for a pair of 16v cams?

This cost argument is bollox.

The 8v is lighter albeit not a massive amount, it all counts.

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by sje00

How much is it for an 8v cam?
How much is it for a pair of 16v cams?

This cost argument is bollox.

The 8v is lighter albeit not a massive amount, it all counts.

Well if you look at it like that the 16v stills comes out cheaper price per cam around 300 for a pair of cams or about 200 for one 8v cam the extra 100 isn't allot when you look at the extra power you get and how much it'll cost to get the 8v to the same power and the price of a gasket kit and bolts as the head has to come off an 8v none of that cost involved in camming a 16v... So that argument is bollocks

[Tom5190]

Originally Posted by sje00

How much is it for an 8v cam?
How much is it for a pair of 16v cams?

This cost argument is bollox.

The 8v is lighter albeit not a massive amount, it all counts.

Its not really bollocks, the bottom line is it costs more money to get the same power from an 8v as a 16v at what ever point in engine modification, be it turbo or N/A surely?

[jeffchiz]

as Tom said will cost more than a grand I've paid about £1700-2000 to get my 16v to 155bhp and that's with getting my bodies at a stupidly low price got a good £30 off my cams, me and Tom fitted everything and did most the work

Seriously mate do whatever makes you happy a fast 8v is always interesting just don't under estimate the costs which ever route you take