Cammed 8v or Cammed 16v? - Page 2 - Saxperience

joe333 · 30th January 2012, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Yea was guna say how is taht possible unless theres alot of extra weight on his behalf and he cant change gear!

What mod's are on the vts?

Nothing much just supersprint centre pipe piper backbox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniGibbo

8v more torque'y than the 16v.. O my fucking days.

Its true you can ask him nick 2506

devilsadvocate · 30th January 2012, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniGibbo

8v more torque'y than the 16v.. O my fucking days.

If the VTS was granny shifting then it's possible.

Once the 16v hits 3-4k revs, it should pull away easily from an 8v.

0-60 with propper shifting, the 16v would be ahead by a decent amount.

Ryan^p · 30th January 2012, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniGibbo

8v more torque'y than the 16v.. O my fucking days.

his is modified.

Tom5190 · 30th January 2012, 18:20

Yea man its likely not to be 134 with them mods was it the same RR that you 2 used though? Dont base your decision on that, a quick 8v is always a nice thing to see but you can see 150bhp for not alot of cost on a 16v. to get that from a 8v your going for a full engine build not just headstuff.

joe333 · 30th January 2012, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

If the VTS was granny shifting then it's possible.

Once the 16v hits 3-4k revs, it should pull away easily from an 8v.

0-60 with propper shifting, the 16v would be ahead by a decent amount.

No granny shifting down south thank you

and nahh thats the thing his 3-4k then revs but then mine just keeps with him and end up having and edge!

joe333 · 30th January 2012, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Yea man its likely not to be 134 with them mods was it the same RR that you 2 used though? Dont base your decision on that, a quick 8v is always a nice thing to see but you can see 150bhp for not alot of cost on a 16v. to get that from a 8v your going for a full engine build not just headstuff.

Yep same rolling road me nick2506 and wickerd-vtr all did a rolling road!

Ashleyp · 30th January 2012, 20:59

I can't beleive this is actually being discussed.

the equivilant 16v engine hasn't just been better than it's 8v counterpart since the dawn of saxos, it's been the better choice for ever.

Sure, you can get some fruity 8v engines, but the same mods on the 16v engine will always be better.

the fact you can pick up tu5j4 / jp4 engines for peanuts is the icing on the cake...

joe333 · 27th August 2012, 13:18

Bumping this up but just wanna quote this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sje00

Cammed and bodied 16v with standard internals 160-165bhp?
My 8v 156bhp and lighter?

Plus 8v on bodies sounds better than 16v IMO. Couple guys from 106oc had cammed and bodied 16v and the 8v did sound better IMO. But then again I can rev mine to 8300rpm where as a 16v can only really go to 7600 - 7800rpm due to hydraulic lifters, from what I've read and heard.

You know you want to tune the 8v. :-D

Tom5190 · 27th August 2012, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe333

Bumping this up but just wanna quote this!

You can rev a 16v to 8K on the standard lifters. We have a 190hp package for 16v which keeps hydro lifters.

I think the arguement is more against the cost rather than the outcome, The weight difference between 8v and 16v really isnt much. For the cost of getting 150hp from a 16v i very much doubt you will see 150hp from an 8v.

greyjasper51 · 27th August 2012, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

You can rev a 16v to 8K on the standard lifters. We have a 190hp package for 16v which keeps hydro lifters.

I think the arguement is more against the cost rather than the outcome, The weight difference between 8v and 16v really isnt much. For the cost of getting 150hp from a 16v i very much doubt you will see 150hp from an 8v.

N/a one of the blokes i know who competes has a 168-170bhp 8v... 1600 still but you dont even wanna know the cost of it... Lets leave it at alot :-)

But 16v is cheaper for the power increases :-)

joe333 · 27th August 2012, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

You can rev a 16v to 8K on the standard lifters. We have a 190hp package for 16v which keeps hydro lifters.

I think the arguement is more against the cost rather than the outcome, The weight difference between 8v and 16v really isnt much. For the cost of getting 150hp from a 16v i very much doubt you will see 150hp from an 8v.

The money side is irrelevant really as mines 118.9hp at the moment so same as a standard 16v,Yes! so spending £1000 on mine could get it to say 150hp and spending £1000 on 16v could get 150hp!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sje00

.

The 8v on bodies and the 645 cam is a lot more fun than a 16v of similar spec. I've driven both and raced cammed and bodied 16v's and I'm just as fast or faster.

CustomChris · 27th August 2012, 18:32

16v FTW

mattrallye · 27th August 2012, 19:06

Jools over on the Rallye Register has a kit car spec 170bhp 1.6 8v. My old 1397cc 8v was making 145bhp and would have made more with standalone management. If you throw enough money at them you wont be disappointed. My 8v was making mince meet of Clio sports and the odd Impreza around Castle Combe lol.

16v is the easy option and make good power from little expense, and if you throw good money at it you'll make huge power.

Gandi699 · 27th August 2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattrallye

Jools over on the Rallye Register has a kit car spec 170bhp 1.6 8v. My old 1397cc 8v was making 145bhp and would have made more with standalone management. If you throw enough money at them you wont be disappointed. My 8v was making mince meet of Clio sports and the odd Impreza around Castle Combe lol.

16v is the easy option and make good power from little expense, and if you throw good money at it you'll make huge power.

Do you have a spec of the 1.4?

mattrallye · 27th August 2012, 19:45

Yes

Rallye alloy block, bored liners to 76mm making 1397cc
Wossner group A pistons
xsi 1360 rods and lightened/balanced crank
Catcam 671 race cam
Catcam pulley
Minister ported head with Catcam springs and valve tops
Jenvey 40mm itb's
Steel lightened flywheel
larger injectors
Paddle clutch
Sandy Brown inlet manifold
Supersprint exhaust manifold
Remapped ECU 7800rpm
made 145bhp

Gripper MA dog box with Gripper 4.2LSD

My plans were to add a DTA S40, and another 4 injectors. I would estimate just over 150bhp.

Sadly that engine self destructed so I'm now in the process of finding a replacement.

jeffchiz · 27th August 2012, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe333

The money side is irrelevant really as mines 118.9hp at the moment so same as a standard 16v,Yes! so spending £1000 on mine could get it to say 150hp and spending £1000 on 16v could get 150hp!

even if the 16v 'only' has 10-15bhp more then its still MORE and is no extra money, im lookign at getting another 15bho out of my bodied 16v and im budgetting around £1k

this thread is pointless you asked for peoples opinions and everyone is saying 16v, and you constantly say 8v so go for 8v!! only you know what you want and seems like youve made your mind up and trying to find people to reaesure you for picking 8v, guessing your 8v is cammed to get 118bhp?

if so whacking on a set of bodies and a remap will get you about 5bhp, my car on bodies only produces 4bhp more than tom5190's cammed 16v believe me and buying bodies and a remap will set you back a good grand and you will see 130bhp max imo its a waste of money, unless you are looking to go for wilder cams and forged pistons will set you back much more than a grand

jeffchiz · 27th August 2012, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattrallye

Yes

Rallye alloy block, bored liners to 76mm making 1397cc
Wossner group A pistons
xsi 1360 rods and lightened/balanced crank
Catcam 671 race cam
Catcam pulley
Minister ported head with Catcam springs and valve tops
Jenvey 40mm itb's
Steel lightened flywheel
larger injectors
Paddle clutch
Sandy Brown inlet manifold
Supersprint exhaust manifold
Remapped ECU 7800rpm
made 145bhp

Gripper MA dog box with Gripper 4.2LSD

My plans were to add a DTA S40, and another 4 injectors. I would estimate just over 150bhp.

Sadly that engine self destructed so I'm now in the process of finding a replacement.

sounds liek a nice spec but my 16v is only 155bhp which is 10bhp more and all ive had to do is bolt on a set of bodies and cams, plug in my ecu and get it mapped, not knocking the 8v spec jsut trying to show the OP how hard and expensicve it is to get a quickish 8v

Cam · 27th August 2012, 20:55

Its a no brainer why you bumping?....

mattrallye · 27th August 2012, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

sounds liek a nice spec but my 16v is only 155bhp which is 10bhp more and all ive had to do is bolt on a set of bodies and cams, plug in my ecu and get it mapped, not knocking the 8v spec jsut trying to show the OP how hard and expensicve it is to get a quickish 8v

Totally agree with you mate. Only reason I'm running 1.4 is motorsport class purposes, otherwise I'd go 16v, it's the obvious choice. You will however be burdened by an extra 21kg's running the cast iron block, hence why I keep the weight down with an alloy block.

If you're not building your car for motorsport regs and it's just for fun, go 16v and save yourself a lot of expense with 118bhp out of the box.

joe333 · 27th August 2012, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

guessing your 8v is cammed to get 118bhp?

Nope 100k on the clock, omp inox, piper 4-1 s1 inlet NOT CAMMED...118 bhp 8v osshh