Cammed 8v or Cammed 16v?

[Gandi699]

Originally Posted by sje00

The Rallye had a different cam and a better head.

Yeah the J cam and the altered combustion chamber. That aside though it would rev to 7250 rpm as oppososed to the VTR 1000rpm lower

[Tom5190]

Originally Posted by joe333

The money side is irrelevant really as mines 118.9hp at the moment so same as a standard 16v,Yes! so spending £1000 on mine could get it to say 150hp and spending £1000 on 16v could get 150hp!

£1000 wont see you 150hp from a 16v in most case's (if you factor in someone else fitting & using new parts) let alone an 8v.

I dont really know too much about 8v's because ill be honest ive never actually seen or worked on a modified one behond breathing mods. But it is a science that the 16v is better, not an opinion, the head is better and flows better from standard too. Not to say an 8v cant make good power (see tweeqd) it just tends to be that what ever power you get from the 8v if you had spent that money on a 16v it would be more.

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

so hes got 134 with a standard vts and so that in your head means the rolling road is reliable? lol i think in most people minds it points out that it is over reading maybe?

kinda shot your self in the foot with that comment lol

The rolling road he is talking about is the one mine made 141hp on. Granted my G/box was knakerd so my losses will of been higher than the inputed ones, (it was a dyno dynamics) but i doubt enough for me to be 10hp down so even with a perfect running engine/transmission i would of only really saw 145ish on that road i imagine.

There was a few strange figures from that day though like a standard 1.1 making 75hp.

I would look at it from a different angle than noise and hp, whats the best 1/4 mile time you have seen from the 8v joe and at what strip?

[sje00]

How much is it for an 8v cam?
How much is it for a pair of 16v cams?

This cost argument is bollox.

The 8v is lighter albeit not a massive amount, it all counts.

[sje00]

Originally Posted by Gandi699

Yeah the J cam and the altered combustion chamber. That aside though it would rev to 7250 rpm as oppososed to the VTR 1000rpm lower

Yes... I know.

The Vtr had an inferior cam, an inferior rev limit and some came with the stupid long ratios no?

[jeffchiz]

as Tom said will cost more than a grand I've paid about £1700-2000 to get my 16v to 155bhp and that's with getting my bodies at a stupidly low price got a good £30 off my cams, me and Tom fitted everything and did most the work

Seriously mate do whatever makes you happy a fast 8v is always interesting just don't under estimate the costs which ever route you take

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by sje00

How much is it for an 8v cam?
How much is it for a pair of 16v cams?

This cost argument is bollox.

The 8v is lighter albeit not a massive amount, it all counts.

Well if you look at it like that the 16v stills comes out cheaper price per cam around 300 for a pair of cams or about 200 for one 8v cam the extra 100 isn't allot when you look at the extra power you get and how much it'll cost to get the 8v to the same power and the price of a gasket kit and bolts as the head has to come off an 8v none of that cost involved in camming a 16v... So that argument is bollocks

[Tom5190]

Originally Posted by sje00

How much is it for an 8v cam?
How much is it for a pair of 16v cams?

This cost argument is bollox.

The 8v is lighter albeit not a massive amount, it all counts.

Its not really bollocks, the bottom line is it costs more money to get the same power from an 8v as a 16v at what ever point in engine modification, be it turbo or N/A surely?

[CrouchyM]

16V! Don't know why you had to ask. Plus if your go JP4 you can find them on much lower milage than J4's.

Its a Win Win

[joe333]

Originally Posted by Tom5190

I would look at it from a different angle than noise and hp, whats the best 1/4 mile time you have seen from the 8v joe and at what strip?

Santa pod at usc i went down with over a half tank and got a 16.1

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

as Tom said will cost more than a grand I've paid about £1700-2000 to get my 16v to 155bhp and that's with getting my bodies at a stupidly low price got a good £30 off my cams, me and Tom fitted everything and did most the work

Seriously mate do whatever makes you happy a fast 8v is always interesting just don't under estimate the costs which ever route you take

That parry 121 got 159.9 bhp with cat cam 708s, lighten and balance fly wheel. mapped ECU.

So yours cammed with boddies only getting 155bhp... something wrong there?

[titchster]

Rolling road figures mean shit. My 106 gained 23bhp just by using different rollers.

[Sophia_Bush]

parrys made 159.9 on awesome gtis rollers but previously made 152/153 on automarks rollers (based in north east) different manifold exhaust and induction at that time though

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by joe333

Santa pod at usc i went down with over a half tank and got a 16.1



That parry 121 got 159.9 bhp with cat cam 708s, lighten and balance fly wheel. mapped ECU.

So yours cammed with boddies only getting 155bhp... something wrong there?

fly wheel wont make any difference to power and no there is nothign wrong with mine thanks, that is what those mods are expected to get on northampton motorsport's road

I really hope you are not that nieve and go by rolling road figures to compare cars, 160 bhp with 708's and oem ecu is a way to hgih of a figure surely you should know that??? but considering you believe youve got 118bhp with breathing mods then i guess you do

Also if you know anything about throttle bodies you would know on fast road cams such as 708/743/ph3s they wont produce that much more PEAK power than jsut a cammed car, they are needed to supply air for wilder cams on my spec they mainly make a nice noise, look good in the bay and produce higher torque figures and a smoother power curve, its not all about max bhp

if you want to mod the 8v then jsut mod the 8v doesnt bother me either way just trying to advise you and not get you to piss all your money away, peace out.

[greyjasper51]

Ladies...

118 for a cammed breathing 8v is high on oem management, not saying its not true..

Jeffchizz throttle bodies on his spec car are prob only flowing 50-60% of there max flow rate with his car... The potential to go bigger power is there it just hasnt been taken...

Also we are forgetting when was the dynos last callebrated, we are all quoting corrected power figures...

8v vs 16v always has controvesy and always will...

Stay soft people!!

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by greyjasper51

Ladies...

118 for a cammed breathing 8v is high on oem management, not saying its not true..

Jeffchizz throttle bodies on his spec car are prob only flowing 50-60% of there max flow rate with his car... The potential to go bigger power is there it just hasnt been taken...

Also we are forgetting when was the dynos last callebrated, we are all quoting corrected power figures...

8v vs 16v always has controvesy and always will...

Stay soft people!!

yea exactly my point my bodies are basically there for the noise and pub bragging rights lol dont really do much else lol from my experience my car can pull ever so slightly on a cammed vts

[greyjasper51]

Originally Posted by jeffchiz

yea exactly my point my bodies are basically there for the noise and pub bragging rights lol dont really do much else lol from my experience my car can pull ever so slightly on a cammed vts

Most is driver preferance on track, on the road the speed/power/torque gains will be hardly noticeable...

Just stay calm people... No arguements tonight :-) just try one night on saxp with no arguements

[joe333]

Originally Posted by Simon

Original VTR 8v........ 107.2 bhp

BMC air filter
Supersprint Manifold
Superspint silenced centre
Piper backbox

Simon on his vtr with these mods got a 107.2! rallyes got better head and cam, also mines got s1 inlet! so how is mine not possible to be 118 hp without being cammed! foolish people jealousy hurts

Whats the point on getting boddies if your not going to do a proper job of it? you just got them for the noise really? thats not silly from my point of view! could of just brought a carbon procomp induction kit! like £150 not waste £700-800 on boddies for the sound. . .

[Gandi699]

You think 118 is possible with a rallye J cam and associated head? I doubt mine is making anywhere near that figure if I'm honest, and its a very similar spec

[jeffchiz]

Originally Posted by joe333

Simon on his vtr with these mods got a 107.2! rallyes got better head and cam, also mines got s1 inlet! so how is mine not possible to be 118 hp without being cammed! foolish people jealousy hurts

Whats the point on getting boddies if your not going to do a proper job of it? you just got them for the noise really? thats not silly from my point of view! could of just brought a carbon procomp induction kit! like £150 not waste £700-800 on boddies for the sound. . .

what i spend my money on is my business lol as i said earlier i got my bodies stupidly cheap a grand less than the rrp... cost me no where near £800, brand new they are £1300

and how do you know what my plans are for my car?? im just future proofing my car, i didnt 100% need an aftermarket ecu either but i still bought one for the future

believe me i am not jelous of your 118bhp rallye lol i couldnt careless what bhp it is, the fact is its costs more to get power out of an 8v compared to a 16v end of. there is no arguing that fact, im not sayign its not worthwile or a bad thing to do that is my argument, stop taking it so persoanlly, yes i admit i dont believe your car is 118bhp, (when i had my vtr i fitted a rallye head and s1 inlet and was told id be lucky to get 120bhp with a ph2 cam and a remap which is a higher spec than yours and would cost WAY over a grand so i took the simple route bought a vts covnersion for £300 and threw the vtr engine away sold the head and inlet been there done it not doing it again), the rallye cam is better than a vtr cam but not that much better the car produces 2 bhp more than a late vtr.... but why do bhp figures mean so much to you, stop getting so worked up over it, if your happy with your engine brilliant keep it.

Conversation over, im going bed i dont want to get in an argument with you mate i just wish some one had told me not to bother wasting time on an 8v when you dont have cash to throw about
I'll be honest I love seeing threads on people modifying 8v 's I do find it very interesting hope it works out for you is just not for me

[jayline]

Originally Posted by joe333

Whats the point on getting boddies if your not going to do a proper job of it? you just got them for the noise really? thats not silly from my point of view! could of just brought a carbon procomp induction kit! like £150 not waste £700-800 on boddies for the sound. . .

WOW .... i cant believe you just said that!!! his bodied saxo IMO is one of the best examples of a saxo i've seen in a long time! JEALOUSY is a bitch aye

IMO 8v are better than 16v if you want to keep the weight down, i do agree that the 16v engines are the best engine for bhp money wise as to tune an 8v to say 120bhp would cost you about double what it would cost to drop a 16v in, some days i wish i did but then again i like to see what happens and how far i will get with an 8v BUT i will end up a 16v as its the best thing to do to get the maximum power out of your saxo/106

[titchster]

Originally Posted by joe333

could of just brought a carbon procomp induction kit! like £150 not waste £700-800 on boddies for the sound. . .

Best thing i've read in this whole thread. Because an enclosed induction kit sounds the same and would give the same power as even the most basic of ITB setups.



Those who tune 8vs only do it for 2 reasons IMO (motorsport regs aside);

1. They've never been in a 16v.
2. They don't have the money for a 16v.


I was pro-8v until I went in my mate's 16v Rallye. From that point on, I had my sights set on getting a valver (it only took the best part of 2 years...)