custom wide arch! space frame....update 24th feb pg 6 - Page 6 - Saxperience

dannygti · 16th February 2010, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth106

right.....the work i done looks ok so far i think obviously needs more work...

do i just cut the front off and space frame it....seen alot of people have started this (had the idea for ages not the balls!!!) now its broke tho!!!!!

votes to chop the front off for something more adventurous???

do you know what is involved in spaceframing the fron of a car??
do you know about ideal suspension geometry and how its effected??

if you do not know your shit id suggest you forget about the spaceframe idea.. stick to standard.

Stealth106 · 17th February 2010, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

do you know what is involved in spaceframing the fron of a car??
do you know about ideal suspension geometry and how its effected??

if you do not know your shit id suggest you forget about the spaceframe idea.. stick to standard.

Personally no.....but im currently studying motorsport engineering at one of the leading universities in the country.....

have worked in the car sector for a long time and have good contacts...

and dont really care as its broke already and i have 3 more

i didnt know anything about engine conversions when i did that.....or suspenion or any other aspect of the 106 until i got hands on and done it myself and they turned out pretty well....lets see what this brings wheres the angle grinder!!!!

blackvtrt · 17th February 2010, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth106

Personally no.....but im currently studying motorsport engineering at one of the leading universities in the country.....

have worked in the car sector for a long time and have good contacts...

and dont really care as its broke already and i have 3 more

i didnt know anything about engine conversions when i did that.....or suspenion or any other aspect of the 106 until i got hands on and done it myself and they turned out pretty well....lets see what this brings wheres the angle grinder!!!!

how did you get on the course then? It's all maths & physics now though isnt it?
My cousin studied motorsport engineering aswell. But when we where asking her simply car related questions she didnt have a clue. But is stupidly clever at maths, her mum was a maths lecturer & she got one of the highest past percentages in the country at the time.

Do you know anything about camber, castor, toe in/out, damping rates, spring rates etc? If you dont know much about all of the above atleast id just forget about trying to build your own front end. Its NOT a spacframe design. A true spaceframe is the chassis, has all the pickup point and mounts incorporated into it & the body simply bolts onto. What your talking about building is more of a custom subframe design.

Stealth106 · 17th February 2010, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackvtrt

how did you get on the course then? It's all maths & physics now though isnt it?
My cousin studied motorsport engineering aswell. But when we where asking her simply car related questions she didnt have a clue. But is stupidly clever at maths, her mum was a maths lecturer & she got one of the highest past percentages in the country at the time.

Do you know anything about camber, castor, toe in/out, damping rates, spring rates etc? If you dont know much about all of the above atleast id just forget about trying to build your own front end. Its NOT a spacframe design. A true spaceframe is the chassis, has all the pickup point and mounts incorporated into it & the body simply bolts onto. What your talking about building is more of a custom subframe design.

basically after college i left worked in the real world for a few years and spent the money on modifying my car..... yes thats right most of it is maths and physics and most people dont have a clue about general car stuff as most of them are 19 in university and cant afford a car....

i on the other hand rather than spend all my money getting smashed off my face still invest in the car.....

i understand what you are saying about the chassis the main reason for this is that i am unsure what to do.....

i am tempted to create a whole chassis and bolt the shell to it (westfield / kitcar type design).....
or to just modify the front in a "custom subframe design" as you stated....
i have read alot into the dimma cosworth 106 and they use alot of sierra components that i am tempted to do to obtain rwd.....

alot of my friends are in their last year at university and have studied toe in/out camber etc and how it affects handling....
the university actually has many programs that if i wanted to test the chassis in a virtual environment this is possible (one program is called adams... among others)
One of our lectures is geoff goddard who has developed alot of the best F1 engines for last 20 years working for cosworth renault and many other teams....
a close friend currently works for red bull and an old friend from home happens to be an expert in the engine i want to use.....

and as stated i do have a preference to maths and believe with calculations and correct measurements ( measure twice cut once!!!) this should all be possible....

tbh i am looking at it as more of a mechanical show piece than a track quarter mile monster (although this would be nice

) and if it ends up handling badly or not working i havent lost much as the shell is already damaged...

blackvtrt · 17th February 2010, 12:22

personally i think the best way would be to make up a front subframe to mount the engine and suspension, attach that to the bulkhead. Cut the boot floor out and make a custom rear subframe/interior cage to mount rear coilovers! Alot of time & effort. Dont be fooled into thinking u'll have not lost anything either as the material can get quite expensive.

jeffchiz · 17th February 2010, 12:51

hey blackvtrt- i was doing motorsport last year with luke but i dropped out and changed as maths isnt my strongest subject but we do get our hands dirty in the uni work shop there are various old race cars (an F1 car, forumula ford, indy car etc) and as part of our materials course is to work on these cars measuring camber, toe, caster etc etc and we have to draw many sketches on how different set up affects the cars handling, im not sure if luke has had to do this yet but inevitably he will have to do it, also the uni students actually build a spaceframe every year and make a race car to compete in the student formula team i didnt do this as i dropped out lol
also on a different subject i think ill just make my own grille as £50 is too expensive considering i have the materials ready to hand i just couldnt be bothered to make the grille lol but thanks for offering to do it tho

Stealth106 · 19th February 2010, 00:37

rite i have voted it as a yes i will be cutting the front off.....

update soon!!!

Stealth106 · 22nd February 2010, 20:54

well here a preview of something ive been thinking for a long time and as the wings were already damaged be rude not too!!! wide arch here i come....its early days and these are trial wings as i have another pair....im thinking wider but would like it subtle...hmmmm

Stealth106 · 22nd February 2010, 20:54

double post!!

dannygti · 22nd February 2010, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth106

Personally no.....but im currently studying motorsport engineering at one of the leading universities in the country.....

have worked in the car sector for a long time and have good contacts...

and dont really care as its broke already and i have 3 more

i didnt know anything about engine conversions when i did that.....or suspenion or any other aspect of the 106 until i got hands on and done it myself and they turned out pretty well....lets see what this brings wheres the angle grinder!!!!

im in the motorsport trade and build race cars/spaceframed cars everyday!!!
i get LOTS of young uni lads who think they can build this that or the other yet they dont even know the basics when it comes to it. i hope that your different.

"spaceframing" a car is MUCH more complex than doing the odd engine conversion or gearbox change.

if you need any help just pm me, i could probably point you in the right direction

Stealth106 · 22nd February 2010, 21:56

heres a few pics i took at uni for you the other day....

Stealth106 · 22nd February 2010, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

im in the motorsport trade and build race cars/spaceframed cars everyday!!!
i get LOTS of young uni lads who think they can build this that or the other yet they dont even know the basics when it comes to it. i hope that your different.

"spaceframing" a car is MUCH more complex than doing the odd engine conversion or gearbox change.

if you need any help just pm me, i could probably point you in the right direction

im far from knowing it all but im willing to try and believe i have the skill to do it (with a little help) so yes i will be making an intial design before i just start chopping bits off will prob post it on here before hand.......maybe a drink at fcs too

thanks

i have recently bought the haynes build your own sports car which has some interesting information in it and would recommend to anyone who likes to do stuff themselfs instead of handing out money to others (not that i care about them...i just personally resent paying people for stuff without trying to do it myself first

)

dannygti · 22nd February 2010, 22:12

^^ its all well and good taking pictures of cars at your uni but if you havnt designed and built them yourself it doesnt count

im not trying to put you down or knock you for having a go, im just trying to say its not easy to just "spaceframe" a car.....

what uni do you go to?

stu-n-shell · 22nd February 2010, 22:12

looks good lucky you didnt loose your fingers in that fan though

frankie · 22nd February 2010, 22:22

the project sounds very good...

the cars in your uni are better than the single formula renault we have lol

Stealth106 · 22nd February 2010, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

^^ its all well and good taking pictures of cars at your uni but if you havnt designed and built them yourself it doesnt count

im not trying to put you down or knock you for having a go, im just trying to say its not easy to just "spaceframe" a car.....

what uni do you go to?

I go to Oxford Brookes.....

as i say im not expecting to do it in a weekend or anything....but there will be regular progress.... im not expecting it to compete in any events or anything like that im just doing it because i want to basically.....

im not 100% on final design yet but will let you know when i am...any ideas you would like to share....basically the few ideas i have for front design are...

cut the chassis rails and replace with two pieces of box section boxed plated in each side with a bar across the front (would look like a Pi symbol) then mandral bent pieces coming from the strut top leading onto the chassis rails.

a roll cage inside leading out onto the strut tops and again onto the chassis rails linking the front with the roll cage.....

but then thought if i was doing that would if be easier to cut the complete chassis rails out from the body (after supporting the shell with internal support to keep shape/straight) and put in a new pair of chassis rails and create a whole chassis similar to the westfield design (as this appears to fit the shape under a 106) obviously with changed dimensions to fit the car....this will also help with the geometry and the swapping to rwd....

Stealth106 · 22nd February 2010, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie

the project sounds very good...

the cars in your uni are better than the single formula renault we have lol

thats just some sneaky pics i took hate doing it feel like a geek (fresher!! lol)

the car on its own is a dummy.....the others are full race cars....there is alot more the other side and the whole site (wheatly) is about 50% just motorsport warehouses / machinery for us to use

jeffchiz · 22nd February 2010, 23:57

i wanted to nick the valve caps of the f1 car

lol ive refrained from doing it tho lol

Stealth106 · 24th February 2010, 16:28

^^ stealing valve caps... says it all.....

right heres todays work the jack is there as the bolt sheared off thats holds the lower part of the wing....another job lol

Stealth106 · 24th February 2010, 16:52

heres a little photoshop for those lacking imagination...